WCML disruption Lockerbie- Carlisle 22 Sept 2022

[Essexal]

Not looking good on WCML this morning… looks like Royal Mail train (1M41) potentially brought down the wires just south of Lockerbie… could take a while to fix

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Oh dear - people are gonna get their post late!

Hasn't been a great week for wires coming down!

 

[londonmidland]

Both up and down lines are blocked at Lockerbie due to overhead wire damage. Wires are down on both line and tangled. Avanti are terminating their services at Preston with TransPennine Express terminating at Carlisle.

 

[Paul_10]

Oh dear - people are gonna get their post late!

Hasn't been a great week for wires coming down!

And has been mentioned many times, it always seem to be in similar areas also. Clearly speed is a factor but are there other underlying causes because the Lockerbie area does seem vulnable to dewirements.

 

[sonic2009]

Noticed that Avanti are terminating at Preston - can they not run through to Carlisle? I'm guessing it could be to do with staffing.

 

[Huntergreed]

Avanti leaving Carlisle to Preston without a service needlessly once again. It seems that even if there was an issue 1 mile out of Central, they would terminate at Preston.

1 Pendolino an hour to and from Carlisle really can’t be that hard to path

Noticed that Avanti are terminating at Preston - can they not run through to Carlisle? I'm guessing it could be to do with staffing.

They’re always doing this if anything goes wrong between Glasgow and Preston - makes staffing easier, but entirely shuts down half the line needlessly. Just one of many examples of why Avanti are a poor TOC.

 

[Agent_Squash]

They’re always doing this if anything goes wrong between Glasgow and Preston - makes staffing easier, but entirely shuts down half the line needlessly. Just one of many examples of why Avanti are a poor TOC.

Indeed. While it's relatively easy to get from Lancaster to Preston still because of Northern, it practically cuts off Cumbria.

Understand that it does throw staffing issues into the mix as only Polmadie and Preston crews sign north of Preston iirc, but that knowledge should be extended until at least Oxenholme so people can connect into the National Park.

 

[paul1609]

Is there actually that much traffic from the WCML to the Lake District that the Northern and Transpennine services cant cope? Station useage figures of 400k for Windermere and 600k for Oxenholme (pre- covid) suggest not.

 

[Huntergreed]

Indeed. While it's relatively easy to get from Lancaster to Preston still because of Northern, it practically cuts off Cumbria.

Understand that it does throw staffing issues into the mix as only Polmadie and Preston crews sign north of Preston iirc, but that knowledge should be extended until at least Oxenholme so people can connect into the National Park.

The issue isn’t really Preston - Oxenholme (indeed Northern run direct Manchester - Windermere shuttle services now), but Oxenholme and Penrith - Carlisle (as well as all of them - Scotland).

Running 1 x 5 Coach 397 per hour (really isn’t enough to cater for what would normally be a 14-25 coach per hour provision (depending on whether the 9M comes to Edinburgh or just goes to Blackpool). The 390’s are often overloaded, and they’re almost double the capacity of the 397’s!

Is there actually that much traffic from the WCML to the Lake District that the Northern and Transpennine services cant cope? Station useage figures of 400k for Windermere and 600k for Oxenholme (pre- covid) suggest not.

Certainly the mid morning up Pendolino’s and the afternoon/early evening down services are normally very well loaded in my experience - the main issue isn’t traffic using the stations in this area. This is predominantly a through-route, and 1 x 5 car tph on one of the busiest routes in the country is seriously poor provision. Avanti are once again demonstrating their complete lack of care for their customers by suspending over half of their most significant route for an issue which should only affect a quarter of it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

… looks like Royal Mail train (1M41) potentially brought down the wires just south of Lockerbie…

Just for background info, how many Royal Mail trains are currently operational (and where do they usually operate between, is it just Shieldmuir and Warrington)? Saw one running at speed, Southbound through Oxenholme just before 6 p.m. last night and was wondering if it was the same set that's brought the overhead wires down earlier on.

Realtime Trains | 1M44 1620 Shieldmuir Mail Terminal to Warrington Royal Mail(Dbs) | 21/09/2022

Real-time train running information for 1M44 1620 departure from Shieldmuir Mail Terminal to Warrington Royal Mail(Dbs) on 21/09/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[XAM2175]

Just for background info, how many Royal Mail trains are currently operational (and where do they usually operate between, is it just Shieldmuir and Warrington)? Saw one running at speed, Southbound through Oxenholme just before 6 p.m. last night and was wondering if it was the same set that's brought the overhead wires down earlier on.

There are fifteen Class 325 units currently in service. They also run between Shieldmuir and the Princess Royal Distribution Centre at Willesden, in addition to ECML runs between the PRDC and Low Fell outside Newcastle.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The train that is in the OP’s photo was due at PRDC at 13:28. I had to tell my boss it’s not coming.
We are currently loading a 12-car set (325014/015/003) to form the 16:21 to Shieldmuir.
Can it reach there by going via the ECML ?

 

[Huntergreed]

The train that is in the OP’s photo was due at PRDC at 13:28. I had to tell my boss it’s not coming.
We are currently loading a 12-car set (325014/015/003) to form the 16:21 to Shieldmuir.
Can it reach there by going via the ECML ?

Suppose it could up to Edinburgh then around via Carstairs

 

[30907]

Avanti leaving Carlisle to Preston without a service needlessly once again. It seems that even if there was an issue 1 mile out of Central, they would terminate at Preston.

1 Pendolino an hour to and from Carlisle really can’t be that hard to path

They’re always doing this if anything goes wrong between Glasgow and Preston - makes staffing easier, but entirely shuts down half the line needlessly. Just one of many examples of why Avanti are a poor TOC.

Do Avanti have crews based at Preston?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Do Avanti have crews based at Preston?

Yes. It’s the only depot that covers the whole WCML.

 

[_toommm_]

Seems something last left Glasgow. Just passed Shieldmuir 32 late

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:s41849/2022-09-22/detailed#allox_id=0

Hopefully the sleeper manages to leave Euston tonight as it’s my first time in a few years.

 

[Bevan Price]

The train that is in the OP’s photo was due at PRDC at 13:28. I had to tell my boss it’s not coming.
We are currently loading a 12-car set (325014/015/003) to form the 16:21 to Shieldmuir.
Can it reach there by going via the ECML ?

Yes - if any drivers know that route.

 

[Statto]

Noticed that Avanti are terminating at Preston - can they not run through to Carlisle? I'm guessing it could be to do with staffing.

Because AWC drivers diagrams are not as simple as that. i think Polmadie drivers do Scotland to Preston, but Preston to Euston is done by a mix of Longsight, Oxley, Wembley & Edge Hill, think some maybe based at Preston, not sure, so drivers going to Euston to Lancaster, could well go over their max hours, with other diagrams they have to do during the day too.

 

[Class 170101]

I am guessing few if any Avanti nservices went via Kilmarnock during this disruption.

 

[Carlisle]

I

I am guessing few if any Avanti nservices went via Kilmarnock during this disruption.

1 x Glasgow - Carlisle 10 car Voyager return trip from what I can tell.

 

[Crewe Exile]

I’ve got to say that compared to when I was interested in the railways (80s and early 90s) and often travelling round the country ‘overhead wire damage’ was extremely rare. I realise there are more routes electrified nowadays but the amount of times I am reading problems because of ‘damage to overhead lines’ makes me wonder if overhead wires are put up in a different (cheaper?) manner nowadays?. If a train fails why and how is it damaging miles of wiring at a time?

 

[InOban]

The line reopened at 19.47. Well done.

 

[The Planner]

I’ve got to say that compared to when I was interested in the railways (80s and early 90s) and often travelling round the country ‘overhead wire damage’ was extremely rare. I realise there are more routes electrified nowadays but the amount of times I am reading problems because of ‘damage to overhead lines’ makes me wonder if overhead wires are put up in a different (cheaper?) manner nowadays?. If a train fails why and how is it damaging miles of wiring at a time?

Its the same infrastructure that is just becoming life expired in many cases. In terms of the amount damaged it has been mentioned elsewhere, you are not stopping a train on a sixpence, so if you dewire you are dewiring over a distance. Its not just the contact wire you are taking out either.

 

[Frankton Junct]

I

1 x Glasgow - Carlisle 10 car Voyager return trip from what I can tell.

The first I knew of the WCML disruption was when the 10 car voyager went past towards Glasgow Central (1Z20).
There was a southbound service 1T19 that departed Glasgow Central at 1422 delayed by 10 minutes - I assume that was operated by Scotrail on behalf of Avanti because it didn't call at Barrhead, Kilmarnock or Dumfries but it did call at Dunlop, Stewarton, Kilmaurs, Auchinleck, New Cumnock, Kirkconnel, Sanquhar, Annan, Gretna Green and Carlisle! Perhaps real time trains is a bit confused?

 

[JModulo]

The first I knew of the WCML disruption was when the 10 car voyager went past towards Glasgow Central (1Z20).
There was a southbound service 1T19 that departed Glasgow Central at 1422 delayed by 10 minutes - I assume that was operated by Scotrail on behalf of Avanti because it didn't call at Barrhead, Kilmarnock or Dumfries but it did call at Dunlop, Stewarton, Kilmaurs, Auchinleck, New Cumnock, Kirkconnel, Sanquhar, Annan, Gretna Green and Carlisle! Perhaps real time trains is a

The 1422 was an Avanti service, with the pair of voyagers and ran direct to Carlisle via the GSW. It then later returned (about 1730 ish I think) off Carlisle.

 

[QueensCurve]

I’ve got to say that compared to when I was interested in the railways (80s and early 90s) and often travelling round the country ‘overhead wire damage’ was extremely rare. I realise there are more routes electrified nowadays but the amount of times I am reading problems because of ‘damage to overhead lines’ makes me wonder if overhead wires are put up in a different (cheaper?) manner nowadays?. If a train fails why and how is it damaging miles of wiring at a time?

British rail knew how to maintain the wires and that corporate knowledge seems to have been lost in the transition to first Railtrack then network rail.

There were frequent problems in the 1970s/80s some places such as Shap Bank where there were frequent high crosswinds. Between Tebay and shap additional supports were put in to reinforce the wires mechanically in mid 1980s.

 

[MisterSheeps]

One problem with running full service to Carlisle, during a disruption north if it, is a lot of passengers would go there expecting to continue to Glasgow, and, if no 'Thunderbird' drag on the GSW happens any more (why not?) that leaves limited capacity DMU and lots of angry passengers

 

[McRhu]

Trying to work out how the emus brought down the contact wire on the other line while leaving its own catenary and contact in situ.

 

[800001]

Trying to work out how the emus brought down the contact wire on the other line while leaving its own catenary and contact in situ.

Pan damage on the freight train on opposite line, and the Mail train brought wires down on its line as well.

 

[McRhu]

Pan damage on the freight train on opposite line, and the Mail train brought wires down on its line as well.

Ah... Thanks.