West of England Line electrification

[Helvellyn]

Bit of a random thought, but after the Bournemouth Line electrification was there ever any consideration of undertaking a similar sort of scheme for the West of England Line?

• Electrify from Worting Junction to Salisbury
• Build additional REP and TC units for Waterloo-Exeter
• Convert additional 33s to 33/1s for Salisbury-Exeter
• Build additional VEP units for Waterloo-Salisbury

The SR could have run a two-hourly Waterloo-Exeter service with REP+TC(s) to Salisbury, with a 33/1 taking the TC(s) on to Exeter. Waterloo-Salisbury trains in turn could have been all EMU operated. I'd imagine with the service frequency 4/5 REP units might have been sufficient. All stock could have been based at Bournemouth, interworking with the existing Bournemouth Line fleet. I appreciate it would have required capital expenditure but surely could have offered some savings o not needing to operate 9-coach loco hauled trains West of Salisbury that were surely lightly loaded by that point, plus avoided the ECS moves to Newton Abbot (later Laira)?

Late 1960s or early 1970s would have been the only opportunity for this given the original conversions in 1966/67, then the additional stock in 1974.

 

[D6130]

I think that the big problem with such a scheme - apart from the capital expenditure involved - would have been the fact that the line West of Salisbury had been handed over to the Western Region in 1964 and their then management - many of whom were ex-Great Western men - were not at all enamoured of the Southern's way of doing things.

 

[Helvellyn]

I think that the big problem with such a scheme - apart from the capital expenditure involved - would have been the fact that the line West of Salisbury had been handed over to the Western Region in 1964 and their then management - many of whom were ex-Great Western men - were not at all enamoured of the Southern's way of doing things.

I'd forgotten about that, which should have been obvious given the use of Warships on the route! Makes me wonder if the route had stayed with the Southern whether a different perspective would have been taken.

 

[Dai Corner]

I'd forgotten about that, which should have been obvious given the use of Warships on the route! Makes me wonder if the route had stayed with the Southern whether a different perspective would have been taken.

The Warships were only about ten years old at the time under discussion so would have been expected to last another thirty years before replacement had to be considered. Ok, we know it didn't work out like that!

 

[delt1c]

At that time the West Of England service had catering throughout so any build would have to have the catering in the TC not the REP. Therefore the stock would not have been interchangeable with the Bournemouth service

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Reading-Basingstoke-Salisbury third-rail electrification was pencilled in for 1995 under the 1989 plan proposed by Chris Green and Gordon Pettitt, but scuppered first by the 1990 recession and then privatisation. (Source: 'The NSE Story' Green / Vincent 2014). It states that rolling stock would be sourced within the existing fleet, but offers no details of what was proposed for Exeter trains.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

At that time the West Of England service had catering throughout so any build would have to have the catering in the TC not the REP. Therefore the stock would not have been interchangeable with the Bournemouth service

Or they could have changed the catering provision as they eventually did….

 

[randyrippley]

If you believe the rail press stories at the time, the original plan on completion of the Weymouth electrification was to transfer the REP/TC operation in its entirety to the Exeter route - with or without electrification to Salisbury. The decision to recycle the traction motors scuppered that.
Catering would not have been an issue - the TC fleet included three loose restaurant cars that were used sandwiched between the sets and were mainly used on excursions

 

[JonathanH]

Reading-Basingstoke-Salisbury third-rail electrification was pencilled in for 1995 under the 1989 plan proposed by Chris Green and Gordon Pettitt, but scuppered first by the 1990 recession and then privatisation. (Source: 'The NSE Story' Green / Vincent 2014). It states that rolling stock would be sourced within the existing fleet, but offers no details of what was proposed for Exeter trains.

There was a possible plan at one point to put a new build coach in the 455/7 units, with first class and toilets for use on the Reading line, displacing the 508 coach to Merseyside, and new build backfilling suburban services. [Source - a supplement to Rail around 1990]

This would have released slam door stock which could then have gone to the Waterloo to Exeter line.

Of course, Waterloo to Exeter then became earmarked for Network Turbo (171) vehicles, and, when that was unaffordable and the locomotive hauled trains in desperate need of quick replacement, the 159s.

In terms of spare electric units, by 1995, the 471s for the Kent Coast were meant to have been entering service at that time so there could have been an opportunity to move displaced units around the network as a result.

 

[uglymonkey]

I think it survived at all by the skin of its teeth, despite Western Region management is the clue, It was in a period of "managed decline" and also 3rd rail electrification was going out of fashion - why do you need 2 routes to Exeter anyway ? Plymouth and Penzance manage with just one

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If you believe the rail press stories at the time, the original plan on completion of the Weymouth electrification was to transfer the REP/TC operation in its entirety to the Exeter route - with or without electrification to Salisbury. The decision to recycle the traction motors scuppered that.

Bearing in mind one of the factors for new stock for Bournemouth was the high cost of stripping asbestos from the 3 x 4 REP sets they did swung the pendulum towards new build I can’t see this being more than railway press rumours. Indeed the commitment to remove asbestos fitted buffet cars resulted in the TCT sets (TC with trolley space) to replace buffets on the semi-fast services during the fleet renewal.

 

[Helvellyn]

At that time the West Of England service had catering throughout so any build would have to have the catering in the TC not the REP. Therefore the stock would not have been interchangeable with the Bournemouth service

I guess it could have been changed if the view was Salisbury-Exeter wasn't the main route to the South West and the aim was to cater for local traffic. Did catering provision change beyond Bournemouth with electrification from what existed in steam days?

 

[randyrippley]

Thinking about it, the obvious solution would have been 8 or 9-TC sets (including the restaurant cars) using electrodiesels instead of REPs on the third rail section. If more catering coaches were needed they could be sourced from the BEP/BIG sets

 

[bishdunster]

And dont forget the expense , the bournemouth electrification at the time cost £15 million, well within the reach of a lot of this generations lottery winners !

 

[30907]

I'm sure this has been discussed before on the forum?