What a waste of a high speed train!

[Greenback]

It's a shame those journeys can't be done either. I'm not an engineer, so I have no idea about what sort of power supply or track enhancements would be needed, but I presume it's technical problems that make it impossible?

 

[LE Greys]

It's a fault of almost all capital cities that they were seen as a target for railway companies rather than a transitory point. Hauptbahnhof solved that for Berlin.. LGV Interconnexion Est did roughly the same for Paris, while also linking up Charles de Gaulle I doubt that it is possible to do the same for London, partly because anything running south of there would require dual-system stock (not to mention the enormous cost). My ideas will go on the 'Services that should exist' thread.

 

[MCR247]

Would be nice if Thameslink allowed "long distance" services like that - I'd like to travel from Sheffield to Gatwick/ Brighton

Ideally, and I know it isn't possible I would make the thameslink 4 track and build a big (probably) underground station called London Central with good tube connections and it could have intercity services aswell as locals. It would meet up with Crossrail at this station which would also be 4 tracked. It would also be where international trains go from. This would allow routes like

Penzance - Derby via London
Sheffield - Brighton
Norwich - Swansea/Cardiff
etc

 

[tbtc]

Ideally, and I know it isn't possible I would make the thameslink 4 track and build a big (probably) underground station called London Central with good tube connections and it could have intercity services aswell as locals. It would meet up with Crossrail at this station which would also be 4 tracked. It would also be where international trains go from. This would allow routes like

Penzance - Derby via London
Sheffield - Brighton
Norwich - Swansea/Cardiff
etc

The evidence of routes like the Norwich - Basingstoke one Anglia tried, or the Brighton - MK route Southern had is that routes that avoid central London struggle. You're better having two services into/ out of the centre, and people changing.

The only way round this is by going through the middle (like Thameslink/ Crossrail). So maybe we need more routes like this. Convert the Bakerloo line into taking Kentish services through London and up the WCML to Northampton? Extend Waterloo services via Moorgate and Finsbury Park to the ECML? Just make sure you serve central London on the way

 

[MCR247]

One of the problems that many people face is when they change having to use the underground. Having to use it once at a new station where there is lift etc is ok, but when you have to change between lines etc it gets awkward.

Ideally I would build interchanges on major rail lines and then have a 'outer circle line' where it connects them without changing in central london

 

[EWS 58038]

SNCF (Frog's National rail) is planning a 25 platform TGV station right under Chatelet le Halle, making it the biggest and busiest rail station in the world...
Click here for small map

I wonder what the best location for London would be to build a 50 platform station and connect ALL main lines to it (ECML, WCML, MML, GEML, GWML, SML, BML)

Oh wait... for the same amount of money you might actually build a new High Speed Line to Brum.

 

[Geezertronic]

Oh wait... for the same amount of money you might actually build a new High Speed Line to Brum.

You really needed to read up on what the Labour's version of HS2 was going to deliver (and it was not just a HS line to Birmingham since there was a connection to the WCML at Lichfield), but as the ConLib's version is bound to be different you might as well wait...

 

[RichW1]

SNCF (Frog's National rail) is planning a 25 platform TGV station right under Chatelet le Halle, making it the biggest and busiest rail station in the world...
Click here for small map

I wonder what the best location for London would be to build a 50 platform station and connect ALL main lines to it (ECML, WCML, MML, GEML, GWML, SML, BML)

Oh wait... for the same amount of money you might actually build a new High Speed Line to Brum.

Got to say yes this is us all dreaming here but on a positive note...I've been to paris several times and most recently last month and travelled extensively on their underground and rer lines. They are horrific compared to London's! I have no idea where people get the idea that Paris has a more efficient network - the trains are outdated steel cattle wagons in the most part, their most modern line to la Defense is only 1 route in and out and is cramped unlike docklands stations. The whole networks trains are shorter and the platform/station environments are nowhere near as modern or impressive.

People moan a lot in britain and London (I'm not suggesting you are by the way, your post just got me thinking) but it's without justification. the London transport network still is the most extensive, well connected and impressive system anywhere in the world! That includes NYC (which is even worse than Paris, a lot worse) Singapore, HongKong, and I'm not sure about Tokyo as I haven't been. We can be proud of the public transport system in london if not the national rail network

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I think some routes might!!! be able to be cleared for them.

as for the spare class 180's maybe FGW should use them again on London - Hereford services instead of the class 165/166 DMU's Which if possible be used on Cardiff - Portsmouth Harbour and realease at least 2 class 158's which could be reformed back into 2 carriage sets and at least 2 being sent to Northern or something. What has happened with the idea of Northern using loco hauled stock?

165/166 are too wide for the severn tunnel, so you won't be seeing those on cardiff-pompeys
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I have suggested before that the Class 158's used alongside the Class 175's on the ATW North Wales Route should be changed for the Class 180's, but everyone thought that was a bad idea.....

I don't think it's a bad idea at all, and by all accounts there was rumour at arriva we expressed an interest in them... how true that is I don't know. I still stand by the opinion a 180 would have been a better option than a 57 and mk2's on the Gerald run.

 

[LE Greys]

I wonder what the best location for London would be to build a 50 platform station and connect ALL main lines to it (ECML, WCML, MML, GEML, GWML, SML, BML).

The same place where the April the 1st report suggested for London's new airport, where the transport links are best and where the fewest people live. Westminster!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I have long thought that a sensible use for these 180's would be the grossly overcrowded TPE Manchester - Scotland services. The 185s released would then be able to be subleased to Northern to cover the 180 diagrams. This would provide far more suitable stock on both services. I am aware that lots of the Scottish services attach / detach portions at Preston, however I think with a bit of selective re-timetabling the Scottish services could be pathed to run fast from Preston to Manchester Oxford Road, with the current "second portion" running along behind stopping at the likes of Chorley, Bolton etc.

 

[MCR247]

I have long thought that a sensible use for these 180's would be the grossly overcrowded TPE Manchester - Scotland services. The 185s released would then be able to be subleased to Northern to cover the 180 diagrams. This would provide far more suitable stock on both services. I am aware that lots of the Scottish services attach / detach portions at Preston, however I think with a bit of selective re-timetabling the Scottish services could be pathed to run fast from Preston to Manchester Oxford Road, with the current "second portion" running along behind stopping at the likes of Chorley, Bolton etc.

I suggested something like that in a different thread, and I think it would work. But each company still does the maintenance etc

 

[tbtc]

I have long thought that a sensible use for these 180's would be the grossly overcrowded TPE Manchester - Scotland services

Grossly overcrowded? Seriously?

I've done that journey four times (return) by rail this year, and its only been anywhere near "grossly overcrowded" on the Manchester - Bolton - Preston part (which the 180s are used on for Northern). Loadings are decent north of Preston, but I've not seen any standing

As I've said a few times, the top speed of the 180s is nice, but the capacity is more important at the moment, and they are being used on a service that needs long trains, just a shame there are so few

 

[David]

I have long thought that a sensible use for these 180's would be the grossly overcrowded TPE Manchester - Scotland services.

:?

The times I've used the North West TPE services, the only over crowding I've seen is on match days. Even then it's only to Bolton or Preston. Every other time I've been on 185s on that route, I've been able to get a seat, and more often than not, there is several seats spare with no one standing.

The 170s on the South TPE route however .....

 

[tbtc]

The 170s on the South TPE route however .....

Don't start me on those! Sheffield to Manchester (two of the biggest cities in the UK) served by a two car 170 (or a two car EMT 158 on many journeys). Meh.

 

[Drsatan]

Don't start me on those! Sheffield to Manchester (two of the biggest cities in the UK) served by a two car 170 (or a two car EMT 158 on many journeys). Meh.

Blame the (then) SRA for not allowing TPE to order enough 185s, hence the need to use SWTs 170s.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Grossly overcrowded? Seriously?

I've done that journey four times (return) by rail this year, and its only been anywhere near "grossly overcrowded" on the Manchester - Bolton - Preston part (which the 180s are used on for Northern). Loadings are decent north of Preston, but I've not seen any standing

As I've said a few times, the top speed of the 180s is nice, but the capacity is more important at the moment, and they are being used on a service that needs long trains, just a shame there are so few

Fridays to Sundays yes, grossly overcrowded. On many workings Friday to Sunday all seats are reserved North of Preston, allowing no room at all for anyone else. Like everything they are not overcrowded all the time, but there key times when they are simply not big enough and something bigger would avoid folk having to stand for a couple of hours. Cramming folk in for the 10 mins from Bolton to Manchester is ok, but Preston to Edinburgh is another. Ps - the Edinburgh services are generally far busier than the Glasgow ones.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Blame the (then) SRA for not allowing TPE to order enough 185s, hence the need to use SWTs 170s.

And then blame the DfT for making them stretch the 170s even further by having to pinch 185s to go to Scotland.