• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

What could Strathclyde Partnership for Transport(SPT) do to improve?

Status
Not open for further replies.

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
I've only been fully aware of what SPT tendered services are in recent years and I've always wondered what they could do in order to improve these given that resources in terms of money and drivers have never been more tight than they are now.

For me personally, they need to put the money they have into services people might actually want to use instead of saving something that has been axed commercially as it's a serial loss maker that has so few passengers. I also think that the money should be used to try new links that can entice people into using buses and if operators want to take them on commercially, they can with SPT's permission.

I also think the services should be reviewed more often and analysed so that changes can be made to them. The only thing we tend to see is the operator changing when the contract ends but a lot of the services are incredibly stale and carry fresh air on a regular basis.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

mb88

Member
Joined
17 Aug 2012
Messages
472
They should really get their act together and just offer subsidies to operators to provide their existing daytime services later in the evening and on Sundays where it isn’t commercially viable for them to do so. The current set-up has resulted in an almost entirely different network of routes operating at night to the one operating during the day, with different operators running the evening service with no acceptance of each others tickets. My own personal preference would be for a fully tendered network, and will be interested to see how this works out in Greater Manchester over the coming years.
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
They should really get their act together and just offer subsidies to operators to provide their existing daytime services later in the evening and on Sundays where it isn’t commercially viable for them to do so. The current set-up has resulted in an almost entirely different network of routes operating at night to the one operating during the day, with different operators running the evening service with no acceptance of each others tickets. My own personal preference would be for a fully tendered network, and will be interested to see how this works out in Greater Manchester over the coming years.
The ticket acceptance is the big thing that's majorly wrong to be honest. There are too many situations where areas are dominated by one company but the SPT tenders are another company. With most of the tenders, you could probably extend existing services by one or two areas to cover the entirely separate tenders.
 

JKP

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2023
Messages
400
Location
SE Scotland
The issue I have with SPT is with their publicity. Their printed timetables and those on line only ever show journeys provided under contract. Perhaps if the commercial journeys were shown, more passengers would use the contracted journeys.
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
The issue I have with SPT is with their publicity. Their printed timetables and those on line only ever show journeys provided under contract. Perhaps if the commercial journeys were shown, more passengers would use the contracted journeys.
I fully agree with this. A simple tab allowing you to search for all buses and operators in specific areas would help massively as long as you could look at contracted services and commercial ones with a simple sort function so that there wasn't any confusion.
 

GusB

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
7,369
Location
Elginshire
I would suggest that including all bus services in the SPT region would be better. It doesn't really matter to the passenger whether a service is subsidised or not; they only care if there is a bus service or not. If you really want to differentiate, a simple code indicating that a route is subsidised is all that's required.

By having a journey planner that brings in all services from all operators it would also allow people to make better decision about which tickets to buy for their particular journey; for example, if someone travels to work in the daytime and has no option other than to travel home on a subsidised route it allows them to see the bigger picture.
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,408
The issue I have with SPT is with their publicity. Their printed timetables and those on line only ever show journeys provided under contract. Perhaps if the commercial journeys were shown, more passengers would use the contracted journeys.

Certain routes do in fact have this pleasure.
* 34 Lanark to Livingston
* Helensburgh

Its seems to be very selective when they do it. A number of routes around Lanark used to have the commercial journeys included but that no longer the case, for most of them.
 

Stan Drews

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2013
Messages
1,803
You tend to find that operators show tendered trips within their own timetables, but only where they operate both.
 

markymark2000

Established Member
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
4,077
Location
Western Part of the UK
For me, theres a few main ones.

First though is the most important. Admitting that their current ways are wrong. Until they do this, nothing will change. For as long as its 'our way or the highway', all of SPTs issues will continue. There does seem to be a culture there of not innovating and not moving away from their normal. Just plod on and hope for the best.

Moving onto more useful things. I would echo what others say about not having 3 different networks. Core Mon-Sat Daytime, Mon-Sat Evenings and Sundays. All very different networks and for absolutely zero reason. Some of this is as basic as route numbers on THE EXACT SAME ROUTE are different as SPT like to highlight which journeys they support by using a different route number rather than doing the industry norm of having a note on the timetable. Other times this goes as far as providing links in areas on Sundays where links don't exist any other time or just plain, stupid routes. I could give a stupid amount of examples. I've sent them into SPT before, as well as provided cost neutral proposals, they won't amend the network.

Secondly, as part of route tendering, they have no standards in place for having a good passenger experience. A lot of the companies have quite high tendered fares as SPT do not mandate lower fares. There also seems to be a love for fares in multiples of 5p within the Strathclyde area. Unseen almost anywhere else in the UK (least unseen for single, day, week tickets) but companies doing Strathclyde tenders seem to love it. Also with route tendering, a 'core' operator should be given some kind of brownie points so even if the tender costs an extra few pound per month, because passengers can use their pre purchased tickets on the service, more people would use the tendered trips, albeit at less revenue (and as it's all one operator, it would attract more passengers to the wider bus network as their tickets become more useful).

Thirdly, massive one missing is a multi operator ticket. There is already the Glasgow Tripper which bus operators have sorted amongst themselves but sadly this requires smartcards and faff and is only accepted by a few operators. This could very easily be introduced if decent reimbursement was included since McGills, Stagecoach, First, West Coast Motors and Whitelaws would rid the Tripper and for the other operators, mandate that the ticket must be accepted on tendered routes. Not a lot of other operators run commercial routes or if they do, there is an element of funding in there. They already have the ZoneCard so expanding that for day tickets would surely be doable?

Fourthly, redraw the ZoneCard map. Even in Merseyside where they do zonal tickets, they don't have this many zones. SPT Zonecard has 73 zones. 73 ZONES! No wonder people complain about complex ticketing when the a local multi operator ticketing scheme has 73 zones!





Purely to comment on what some others have said about cross promotion of timetables, this only works if SPT were to put all timetables on their site and that becomes labour intensive, especially in the current format. I think that it would be good to see all timetables promoted but given SPT can't even get the basics right, there's little hope of improvements which involve large scale changes which would involve a lot more subsidy. Especially given the current loud calls for franchising of the Glasgow bus network which would give SPT all the power that they so crave, why bother doing good things now as the 'lack of integrated information and ticketing' helps to fuel the pro franchising arguments. Like Manchester did, Andy Burnham said a lot that there was no multi modal ticket in Manchester (despite having the System One, he just liked to ignore that because it would get rid of one of the main arguments for franchising/public control).
 

Stan Drews

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2013
Messages
1,803
Secondly, as part of route tendering, they have no standards in place for having a good passenger experience. A lot of the companies have quite high tendered fares as SPT do not mandate lower fares. There also seems to be a love for fares in multiples of 5p within the Strathclyde area. Unseen almost anywhere else in the UK (least unseen for single, day, week tickets) but companies doing Strathclyde tenders seem to love it. Also with route tendering, a 'core' operator should be given some kind of brownie points so even if the tender costs an extra few pound per month, because passengers can use their pre purchased tickets on the service, more people would use the tendered trips, albeit at less revenue (and as it's all one operator, it would attract more passengers to the wider bus network as their tickets become more useful).

Fourthly, redraw the ZoneCard map. Even in Merseyside where they do zonal tickets, they don't have this many zones. SPT Zonecard has 73 zones. 73 ZONES! No wonder people complain about complex ticketing when the a local multi operator ticketing scheme has 73 zones!
To answer a couple of your points.
SPT do set the maximum fares that can be charged on their tendered services, and they are considerably lower than the commercial operators charge for the same journeys. Therefore tender prices are higher, as there is less revenue and concessionary reimbursement for the operators to net off against their operating costs. operators retain the revenue on virtually all contracts.

The Zonecard is due to be relaunched later this year, so watch this space…!
 

markymark2000

Established Member
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
4,077
Location
Western Part of the UK
To answer a couple of your points.
SPT do set the maximum fares that can be charged on their tendered services, and they are considerably lower than the commercial operators charge for the same journeys. Therefore tender prices are higher, as there is less revenue and concessionary reimbursement for the operators to net off against their operating costs. operators retain the revenue on virtually all contracts.
I saw some of the fares and thought they were quite high. The main issue for me though is fares with 5ps. No one carries around 5ps with them. Fares should all be multiples of 10p.

The Zonecard is due to be relaunched later this year, so watch this space…!
Is that information from an internal sources or official public information?
 

sannox

Member
Joined
1 Mar 2016
Messages
539
Fourthly, redraw the ZoneCard map. Even in Merseyside where they do zonal tickets, they don't have this many zones. SPT Zonecard has 73 zones. 73 ZONES! No wonder people complain about complex ticketing when the a local multi operator ticketing scheme has 73 zones!
I'd also add that whilst Zonecard has a lot of zones it covers an absolutely enormous area. I mean I'm sure if you scaled up Merseyside to the same area you'd not be far off that number of zones.
 

Tayway

Member
Joined
17 May 2021
Messages
193
Location
Scotland
SPT has had its powers hollowed out so much that it's small number of remaining functions are too disparate for the organisation to operate cohesively as it stands.

I think it needs firstly to be split up into smaller areas (and equivalent bodies set up across the rest of Scotland). The health board areas would probably be a better size, so you could have new PTEs for Greater Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Ayrshire.

Then the Scottish Government should give each PTE responsibility for tendering bus services in their area, beginning with socially necessary routes as at present, with a view to extending this to full regulation. Some PTEs or individual councils might want to create their own operators and these would be free to compete for tenders. Greater Glasgow PTE can take over operation of the Subway.

All three should ideally fund a combined bus + train + subway + ferry ticket. If rail were ever to be re-devolved then they could set up a joint operator (Strathclyde Rail or whatever).
 

Stan Drews

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2013
Messages
1,803
I saw some of the fares and thought they were quite high. The main issue for me though is fares with 5ps. No one carries around 5ps with them. Fares should all be multiples of 10p.


Is that information from an internal sources or official public information?
If you search the minutes on the SPT website you should find mention of it.
 
Joined
6 Jan 2018
Messages
138
Location
Carluke
Maybe consider revising slightly outdated routes and (bigger picture) create a system for cross operator/modal ticketing?

An example being my village, which is served by a single Stuart’s of Carluke SPT Optare Solo. The 317 runs from Lanark to Hamilton Town Centre every 90 minutes. It takes approximately 40 minutes to complete the route in each direction, and there is no turnaround time at Hamilton. The service is already cut short at Hamilton as it has insufficient time to reach the bus station, so is no use for rail interchange there. A single delay on a morning service leaves an impact that affects the entire rest of the day, making the service terribly unreliable.

Why not run it Lanark to Larkhall only? Heres why:
  • If you are interchanging with rail, you are going to change at Larkhall or Chatelherault anyway because the bus doesn’t go to Hamilton Interchange (except Sundays and early morning/late evening). I personally use Chatelherault because it’s less distance from the stop to the station (I realise I am cutting this option off with my suggestion).
  • Larkhall has a half hourly rail service to Glasgow and beyond. (hourly on Sunday).
  • Larkhall has no shortage of commercial buses to Hamilton thanks to it being a place where buses from its hinterland such as Netherburn, Coalburn and Lesmahagow are concentrated (hence the multi operator or zonal ticketing).
  • In my experience almost no passengers use the bus exclusively between Larkhall and Hamilton due to the infrequency and the fact it stops short of the Interchange.
  • You would allow 10 minutes of padding at either end of the route now, improving reliability.
The 317 dates from a time when there was no rail service to Larkhall. A heavily subsidised bus route is now competing against a massive rail investment. It also runs in direct competition with commercial routes between Larkhall and Hamilton, though no one uses it for that purpose (Probably because it stops short of the town centre/bus station). It’s tight timetable makes it unreliable for connections, which I turn puts off potential passengers (who, from my village, would rather pay the £5 taxi to Carluke station instead).

However, this would probably only work if we had a truly interoperable bus system. Where I could buy a ticket or be capped across multiple operators (say with maybe an SPT issued ITSO smart card, if only such a thing existed ;)).

More reliability, better for the environment, less taxpayer subsidy. Big wins.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top