What exactly are diagrams?

[Rambler2978]

Sorry , a couple of off topic queries

1. What, exactly are diagrams? Can you give us an example. I thought it might be a simplified map of a particular location showing signals, points etc but don‘t think that is correct!

2. How do you post a new enquiry?

 

[JonathanH]

Sorry , a couple of off topic queries

1. What, exactly are diagrams? Can you give us an example. I thought it might be a simplified map of a particular location showing signals, points etc but don‘t think that is correct!

2. How do you post a new enquiry?

A diagram is a list of all the workings a given piece of rolling stock is intended to do in a day.

 

[Watershed]

What, exactly are diagrams? Can you give us an example. I thought it might be a simplified map of a particular location showing signals, points etc but don‘t think that is correct!

In the railway operations context, it means a document which lists all the services which a nominal unit or member of traincrew is due to work on a given day. For example, today's diagram BI051 lists a variety of Victoria-Brighton services worked by a class 387 unit. Today unit 387227 has been allocated to that diagram.

Here is an example, an extract from Northern's May 2020 unit diagrams (released under FoI):

How do you post a new enquiry?

Do you mean a new thread? You want to click/tap the "Post thread" button on the page with the list of all threads.

 

[Rambler2978]

In the railway operations context, it means a document which lists all the services which a nominal unit or member of traincrew is due to work on a given day. For example, today's diagram BI051 lists a variety of Victoria-Brighton services worked by a class 387 unit. Today unit 387227 has been allocated to that diagram.

Here is an example, an extract from Northern's May 2020 unit diagrams (released under FoI):

View attachment 110917


Do you mean a new thread? You want to click/tap the "Post thread" button on the page with the list of all threads.

Many thanks!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Welcome to the forum

I'm not sure of the origin of the word "diagram" in railway parlance but there were/are two meanings

A train/railway vehicle was built to a particular diagram featuring a particular design or electrical/mechanical arrangement. Have a look at some of the spotting books (e.g. Platform 5) and I think diagrams are listed in there relevant to the class/type of train

Secondly, as described upthread, a diagram is a particular unit/locomotive/train's working from one location to another. It may have a depot prefix and a number. So for example, SU803 is a Class 171 diagram/working from its base allocation of Selhurst Depot (SU). SU803 means that a particular 171 unit, e.g. 171.804 is working London Bridge-Uckfield services for all, or part of the day. Another example is BI704 which might be a Class 313 unit working out of Brighton Depot on Brighton - Portsmouth Harbour services. A further example would be HE056 which might be a Class 717 working out of Hornsey Depot between Welwyn Garden City and London Kings Cross/Moorgate

Usually, train diagrams are worked out by train planners based upon availability, miles, maintenance etc and there is never a guarantee that a train will stick to its allocated diagram on a particular day

 

[Horizon22]

Whilst most discussion has been about train diagrams there are also crew diagrams. The easiest way to think of it is instead of diagram is "schedule" for that crew or unit that day. In a driver context their diagram (in a very simplified style) might look like this with the driver home station at A

0500 - Book on
0510-0610 Take 1A01 from A-B
0630-0730 Take 1A02 from B-A
0735-0835 PNB (break)
0900-0930 Pass on 1B02 from A-C
0945-1005 Take 2D20 from C-D
1015-1035 Take 2D21 from D-C
1045-1105 Take 2D22 from C-D
1115-1135 Take 2D23 from D-C
1155-1225 Passenger on 1B07 from C-A
1230 Book off

 

[XAM2175]

I wonder if the use of the word "diagram" in particular comes from the visual depiction of train movements and paths on charts:

(from http://www.2d53.co.uk/graph/GRMBAN6W1.gif)

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder if the use of the word "diagram" in particular comes from the visual depiction of train movements and paths on charts:

(from http://www.2d53.co.uk/graph/GRMBAN6W1.gif)

I’m sure it does, and wouldn’t traincrew planners have worked out their diagrams by similar means? The eventual output being a table of times, but it wouldn’t have necessarily started out that way…

 

[Ken H]

Busmen have 'boards' - same thing.

 

[306024]

I’m sure it does, and wouldn’t traincrew planners have worked out their diagrams by similar means? The eventual output being a table of times, but it wouldn’t have necessarily started out that way…

Some might, but I’ve never met any. If you are just doing out and back workings with a depot each end perhaps it has some use but for intensive suburban diagramming the unit diagrams are more useful. Keep the crew with the same unit as much as possible should be your objective.

 

[swt_passenger]

Some might, but I’ve never met any. If you are just doing out and back workings with a depot each end perhaps it has some use but for intensive suburban diagramming the unit diagrams are more useful. Keep the crew with the same unit as much as possible should be your objective.

That’s what I was trying (badly) to say, that you’d start with the rolling stock diagrams and then add the train crew to them?

 

[306024]

That’s what I was trying (badly) to say, that you’d start with the rolling stock diagrams and then add the train crew to them?

That‘s how I did it. Back in the 1980s when I was first taught traincrew diagramming there was something called ‘main line balancing‘ which perhaps was useful for graphing traincrew between Kings Cross and Edinburgh, but not for short journeys.

Also to produce more robust diagrams it’s not unknown to alter the stock diagrams so the traincrew don’t have to swap trains. Easier with electric stock that diesel units though.

 

[Rambler2978]

In the railway operations context, it means a document which lists all the services which a nominal unit or member of traincrew is due to work on a given day. For example, today's diagram BI051 lists a variety of Victoria-Brighton services worked by a class 387 unit. Today unit 387227 has been allocated to that diagram.

Here is an example, an extract from Northern's May 2020 unit diagrams (released under FoI):

View attachment 110917


Do you mean a new thread? You want to click/tap the "Post thread" button on the page with the list of all threads.

It is probably hitting me in the face but I just cannot find the “Post thread” button. The home page lists all the Forums but I cannot see it there. Can anyone let me have a screenshot?

 

[swt_passenger]

It is probably hitting me in the face but I just cannot find the “Post thread” button. The home page lists all the Forums but I cannot see it there. Can anyone let me have a screenshot?

You need to choose the appropriate forum for your topic first. “Post Thread” isn’t present when you‘re still on the home page showing the top level list of forums.

 

[30907]

Top of the sub-forum page

 

[Esker-pades]

I wonder if the use of the word "diagram" in particular comes from the visual depiction of train movements and paths on charts:

(from http://www.2d53.co.uk/graph/GRMBAN6W1.gif)

Possibly; it's called the 'Diagram' screen on the software used.