What is the cheapest double decker bus to buy new?

[NorwichRailFan]

Hi guys. Just wondering out of interest. what's the the cheapest double decker bus to buy new?

 

[Eyersey468]

I would think the MCV Evoseti bodied Volvo B5TL. I'm told they are over £20k cheaper than a Gemini. We bought 19 new between 2015 and 2017 including the first production example. They are built to a price though, the build quality is poor, although to be fair the 66 reg ones aren't that bad but some of the 67 plates feel like they were thrown together at 6pm on a Friday night.

 

[Snow1964]

The price also depends a lot on the spec

Obviously one with basic panelling and basic seats is lot less than one with leather trim, wood effect panels, mood lighting, skylights, air conditioning, powered ramp etc.

Can’t currently think of any Operator who gets lowest possible spec, as presumably attracting passengers justifies something more in middle of spec levels

 

[jammy36]

The price also depends a lot on the spec

Absolutely, there are just so many variables. Spec is a big one, but also how many are you buying - a single bus, a batch of vehicles or a multi-year commitment? Also are the vehicles being financed, leased with option to buy or purchased outright? Is the vehicle a custom build or a "stock" vehicle?

For base spec, single vehicle purchase, then I'd expect either ADL E40D E400MMC or MCV Evoseti bodied Volvo B5TL will likely be cheapest, but the type of operator needing a single new base-spec double decker will likely be leasing them, rather than purchasing outright anyhow.

 

[Eyersey468]

As far as I know most operators don't buy vehicles outright, nearly all are on some kind of finance, be it HP, some kind of operating lease etc

 

[MotCO]

As far as I know most operators don't buy vehicles outright, nearly all are on some kind of finance, be it HP, some kind of operating lease etc

If on a lease, would the leasing cost of a mid-spec bus be similar to a low spec bus due to better residual values?

Having said that, I do not understand why Go-Ahead London buy Streetlites (which presumably have a lower list price) than a better bus, for example the E200MMC.

 

[DC3]

Having said that, I do not understand why Go-Ahead London buy Streetlites (which presumably have a lower list price) than a better bus, for example the E200MMC.

It can be a ‘bulk buy’ discount as such, also support packages for spare parts, and servicing. In the case of many large businesses they sometimes issue a tender for suppliers to supply certain products, this can also drive down listed prices.

 

[Eyersey468]

If on a lease, would the leasing cost of a mid-spec bus be similar to a low spec bus due to better residual values?

Having said that, I do not understand why Go-Ahead London buy Streetlites (which presumably have a lower list price) than a better bus, for example the E200MMC.

Possibly but I would expect the cost of the lease to be based partly on the price as well.

 

[cnjb8]

If on a lease, would the leasing cost of a mid-spec bus be similar to a low spec bus due to better residual values?

Having said that, I do not understand why Go-Ahead London buy Streetlites (which presumably have a lower list price) than a better bus, for example the E200MMC.

They have purchased them. But now TfL have said operators can't buy diesel single decks from new

 

[Ken H]

Isnt there contract hire, where the manufacturer gets the fianance, and then rents the buses out to the operator. The manufacturer just has to say they will have x buses available start of each day. maintenance is the manufacturers problem. the operator just puts in fuel and a driver.

 

[MotCO]

Possibly but I would expect the cost of the lease to be based partly on the price as well.

What I was thinking was along these lines (all figures guestimates, and excludes interest)

Cost of Enviro200 £150,000, value after 5 years £50,000. Lease to reflect depreciation over 5 years = £20,000 per year.
Cost of Streetlite £130,000, value after 5 years £25,000. Lease to reflect depreciation over 5 years = £21,000 per year.

The higher cost of the E200 purchase price and residual value reflects the better build quality etc.

 

[MotCO]

Isnt there contract hire, where the manufacturer gets the fianance, and then rents the buses out to the operator. The manufacturer just has to say they will have x buses available start of each day. maintenance is the manufacturers problem. the operator just puts in fuel and a driver.

I think that is possibly the case with Ferrymill Motors or Minstral where 'spot' hire may be possible. Often for cover for insurance jobs.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Isnt there contract hire, where the manufacturer gets the fianance, and then rents the buses out to the operator. The manufacturer just has to say they will have x buses available start of each day. maintenance is the manufacturers problem. the operator just puts in fuel and a driver.

Very rare in the bus industry. I believe much more prevalent in the HGV world. It was tried by Badgerline at Weston shortly after privatisation, and First toyed with it in a couple of places. But generally irrespective of whether HP or Operating Lease, the operator takes responsibility for maintenance.

 

[PG]

the operator just puts in fuel and a driver

Hopefully any reputable operator also taxes and insures the bus as well

It was tried by Badgerline at Weston shortly after privatisation, and First toyed with it in a couple of places.

Yes Volvo seemed to go courting the industry at various times, the Badgerline deal was something new back then when Volvo wanted to establish a presence in the bus side of the PSV market.
I guess it paid off as Stagecoach ordered the B10M/PS by the bucket load, even if they weren't bothered about maintenance deals.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Very rare in the bus industry. I believe much more prevalent in the HGV world. It was tried by Badgerline at Weston shortly after privatisation, and First toyed with it in a couple of places. But generally irrespective of whether HP or Operating Lease, the operator takes responsibility for maintenance.

It was also done by National Bus Co with the Green Line fleet in the late 1970s. They leased AEC Reliances (RP/RS class) via Kirkby Kingsforth IIRC, around 1977/78 with them returning off lease in 1983/4. The first ones returned were replaced by Tigers with ECW and Duple bodies and I think the latter may also have leased on a five year term, being returned to Kirkby in 1988.

The lease aspect can take on a number of different forms, of course. You can have a standard lease but be responsible for the maintenance, or you can have a full op lease with contract maintenance forming part of it. I seem to recall, and readily accept I may be wrong, but did North Western close their depot in Wigan and open up a new base in Haydock with a load of new Scanias that were on a contract maintenance/lease deal?

 

[MotCO]

You can have a standard lease but be responsible for the maintenance, or you can have a full op lease with contract maintenance forming part of it.

I think some of the smaller operators choose to have their heavy maintenance carried out by the local Scania / Volvo etc. dealer.

 

[Cesarcollie]

It was also done by National Bus Co with the Green Line fleet in the late 1970s. They leased AEC Reliances (RP/RS class) via Kirkby Kingsforth IIRC, around 1977/78 with them returning off lease in 1983/4. The first ones returned were replaced by Tigers with ECW and Duple bodies and I think the latter may also have leased on a five year term, being returned to Kirkby in 1988.

The lease aspect can take on a number of different forms, of course. You can have a standard lease but be responsible for the maintenance, or you can have a full op lease with contract maintenance forming part of it. I seem to recall, and readily accept I may be wrong, but did North Western close their depot in Wigan and open up a new base in Haydock with a load of new Scanias that were on a contract maintenance/lease deal?

Surely the Green Line coaches were still maintained by LCBS though? I have no knowledge, but it would have been extraordinarily revolutionary at the time if Kirby’s had done it!

 

[Towielad]

Surely the Green Line coaches were still maintained by LCBS though? I have no knowledge, but it would have been extraordinarily revolutionary at the time if Kirby’s had done it!

The maintenance was down to the individual operating company which in some cases was better than others!

 

[Cesarcollie]

The maintenance was down to the individual operating company which in some cases was better than others!

The maintenance was down to the individual operating company which in some cases was better than other

Surely at the time of these coaches LCBS was still one company? It was only later it was split into four?