What was going on yesterday...

[rosscbrown]

I was on the 16:04 service out of Edinburgh heading for Bathgate (I think). As we were clearing Haymarket I heard a few calls on the radio (I was standing just behind the front cab door) about the status of a stopped train (i think).

We then traveled very slowly out of Haymarket towards my stop at Edinburgh Park. The train stopped not far from Edinburgh Park and the driver came out of the cab, moved us away from the entrance/exit door and got off the train (closing to door behind him).

A good number of minutes later he jumped back onto the train, asked us not to ask why he stopped has he didn't know, and continued slowly to Edinburgh Park.

I heard him reply on the cab radio something along the lines of "it's [telephone, I'm guessing] not working, I'll try the next one down".

Anyway, I got off at Edinburgh Park so I never did get to find out what was going on. Does anyone have any ideas?

Also, how does train control work. Do they have an 'air traffic control' equivalent for the railway system? And what are line side phones for, can't drivers just use mobile phones?

 

[wensley]

Lineside telephones connect to the local signaller. Drivers could use mobile phones but there would be reliability issues especially due to lack of signal.

It sounds as if the driver needed to contact the signaller regarding an obstruction on the line.

Regarding "Air Traffic Control" an area is normally controlled by a large Power Signal Box which is made up of a number of panels showing different parts of the line in a certain area. In some parts smaller signal boxes control only a few of these planels. Where semaphore signals still exist (eg Settle & Carlisle) signal boxes are much closer togther and only control a number of signals around their box. This system works through communication using bell codes (similar to morse) between 'boxes.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Last I heard drivers were not issued with company phones and are not allowed to use their own phone in the cab (besides, no-one would want to use their phone for work unless they had to).

Some trains are fitted with Cab Secure Radio (CSR) systems, but CSR does not cover the whole of the rail network and not every train is fitted. Where it is not fitted/available the driver must leave his cab to use a lineside phone to contact the signaller, this is also the case where there is a CSR failure. Lineside phones are also for use by any authourised person in the course of their duties and in emergencies.

 

[driver9000]

Where CSR is not fitted the system in use will be National Radio Network (NRN) or in a small area IVRS all due to be replaced by GSM-R in 2012. It sounds there was a problem with the signalling or telephone system from the description given in the first post. Drivers are not issued with mobile phones and they are banned from being switched on in driving cabs, all trains are fitted with a radio appropriate to the system in use.

 

[TDK]

Where CSR is not fitted the system in use will be National Radio Network (NRN) or in a small area IVRS all due to be replaced by GSM-R in 2012. It sounds there was a problem with the signalling or telephone system from the description given in the first post. Drivers are not issued with mobile phones and they are banned from being switched on in driving cabs, all trains are fitted with a radio appropriate to the system in use.

IVRS is GSM-R, the same system

 

[driver9000]

Thanks TDK I had a feeling it was, but having never used the system I didnt want to say for certain

 

[Mojo]

With regards to not using mobile telephones, is there a chance the message needed to be recorded? I think the use of signalpost telephones (and other telephones to speak to the signaller) are [all?] recorded. I know of a station where the signaller can speak to the platform staff by radio but if an important message is conveyed, the signaller will ask the platform staff to "give us a ring."

 

[Metroland]

.

Regarding "Air Traffic Control" an area is normally controlled by a large Power Signal Box which is made up of a number of panels showing different parts of the line in a certain area. .

Or in this particular case Edinburgh SC

Everything to modern signal centres is recorded.

 

[37401]

Is he playing simsig at work tut-tut

 

[ungreat]

Drivers are not issued with mobile phones and they are banned from being switched on in driving cabs, all trains are fitted with a radio appropriate to the system in use.

We are,DB drivers are,and so are many other drivers!

You are correct in saying drivers cannot use them whilst driving.

Some 365s have both CSR and NRN,which is not used on FCC trains on the GN.It was fitted in anticipation of gaining Doncaster work some years back,but did not materialise.

 

[68000]

IVRS is GSM-R, the same system

It has the same GSM architecture. The important differences are;

For GSM-R, the drivers get a fixed drivers control panel, speaker & handset. The DCP allows drivers to communicate on 3 priorities to the signaller (normal, urgent and emergency - each with one button press). The emergency is a group call and will stop trains in a pre-determined area. The driver can also send 'standing at signal' messages to the signaller again with one button press as well as short code dialling to the ECR and NR Route Control. The TOC phone book will have numbers associated with the TOC (TOC control, maintenance etc).

IVRS only allows for emergency calls from a mobile handset.

The signaller gets a touch screen terminal with speed dial buttons to other signallers and emergency call areas. He can dial a train from his list or types in the head code

 

[Metroland]

Is he playing simsig at work tut-tut

LOL It's similar, Simsig is just overviews with IECC/Westcad you get detailed screens and custom keyboards, phone concentrators that sort of thing. Most work in signal centres is actually phone and paper work (notices, operational forms, TRUST/TOPS running data, timetables etc), some have automatic route setting, some do not.

Network Rail usually use Westcad now (or similar), which is a PC control base system running on XP that drive Solid state interlockings - which do the mission critical stuff.

Most of Network Rail signalling is due to be concentrated in the next decade at several large centres, which are very office like environments additionally housing TOC and NR management, for example at: East Mids Derby, West Mids Satley, South Wales Cardiff, West of Scotland Cowlairs, Thames Valley Didcot and so on, with Network Rail's overall HQ based at Milton Keynes.

Modern signalling systems are a subset of SCADA. Almost all industrial processes, water and waste water treatment and distribution, power grid, pipeline, broadcast applications are controlled through a few remote control rooms, and the railway is no different - or is at least moving in that direction.