Which ScotRail services from Glasgow to Dundee & Aberdeen are the quietest?

[GaryBrown156]

Hi guys i was wondering if anyone could give me a bit of advice for my cousins about the Dundee and Aberdeen trains, these are two services that i dont travel on very frequently myself so im afraid that my knowlage is limited :cry:
Over the next month or so they will be making 2 seperate journeys both from Glasgow Queen Street, the first one will be a daytrip to Dundee and the second to Aberdeen where they will be staying for 5-7 days "both journeys will be at the weekend"
I'm looking for advice on which services are likely to be the quietest and which are likely to be the busiest "to let them know to avoid them"
The reason for my enquiry is because one of my cousins is autistic and he is prone to take panic attacks if a train is very busy but he's always ok and perfectly capable of traveling on a quieter train "in fact he really enjoys the journey"
Because of my cousins condition they are quite flexable as to which train they catch ideally they would like to depart Glasgow early in the morning but if these trains are usually busy then an afternoon or evening departure would also be fine.

One more question :
A few weeks ago when i was traveling from Glasgow Queen Street to Stirling i boarded an Aberdeen bound train, to my surprise this service was operated by a single class 170 (a 3 car train) i would have thought that an intercity service such as this would have been operated with 2 170's to form a 6 car train.
is this the norm for all the Aberdeen bound services?

Thanks for your help
Yours
Gary Brown

 

[cb a1]

My regular commute, but alas I rarely travel at the weekend so I've no idea about those services.

In 9 years of commuting from Dundee to Queen Street there has never been a regular 6 car service to my knowledge [sometimes you might get a 6 after disruption and they are getting trains back to where they should be, but not as a regular service].

Some services are 5 car (170 + 158) for all or part of the route.

On the whole, there's no need for a 6 car set all the way between Glasgow and Aberdeen. It can get busy at the Glasgow end, but I've rarely seen anyone standing on the section east of Stirling under normal circumstances (obviously disruption and events - T in the Park, Golf, etc. can change that).

That said, I'm sure I read (possibly on here) that the Abellio bid includes for replacement of the 170's with refurbished 5 coach HSTs in due course (and after the platforms at Queen Street have been lengthened).

 

[GaryBrown156]

Thanks
The Aberdeen bound class 170 that i was on a few weeks ago was really busy "if not completely full" between Glasgow and Stirling anyway, i have no idea if it got any quieter between Stirling and Aberdeen as i alighted at Stirling, i boarded this train on a monday and i believe it departed Queen Street about 12.30-40 ish, as i say i very rarely travel on an Aberdeen or Dundee bound train so i have no idea if all the services are that busy or not.
It was a weekday service that i was traveling on so it is not really a good indicator of how busy the early morning weekend trains are???

 

[jopsuk]

That said, I'm sure I read (possibly on here) that the Abellio bid includes for replacement of the 170's with refurbished 5 coach HSTs in due course (and after the platforms at Queen Street have been lengthened).

Yup- 27 shortened HSTs to run Edinburgh & Glasgow to Inverness & Aberdeen, plus Inverness to Aberdeen (!), connecting the seven cities of Scotland (Stirling, Perth & Dundee being the others). Initially at least some will be 4-carriage, until they get sick of the rostering required to avoid the 4-car sets on busy services. Think there's provisions for some to go to six-carriage.

 

[Altnabreac]

Yup- 27 shortened HSTs to run Edinburgh & Glasgow to Inverness & Aberdeen, plus Inverness to Aberdeen (!), connecting the seven cities of Scotland (Stirling, Perth & Dundee being the others). Initially at least some will be 4-carriage, until they get sick of the rostering required to avoid the 4-car sets on busy services. Think there's provisions for some to go to six-carriage.

Franchise Agreement is for:

14 x 4 car and 13 x 5 car sets to start in service late 2018.

2 x 6 carriage sets will be created from 2022 onwards replacing 1 x 4 car and 1 x 5 car set.

Wouldn't be surprised if more of the 4 car services get lengthened towards the end of the franchise.

 

[oldman]

At weekends the football fixture list can affect the numbers of passengers and the ambience, especially from Glasgow.

 

[47271]

I travel between Perth and Queen Street quite a bit - albeit on weekdays, and then onto the HML rather than Aberdeen line - and can give the following pieces of advice, sorry I can't recommend a specific train:

1. If you're only going to Dundee then don't get on an Aberdeen train. The ones terminating at Dundee are generally quieter.

2. As oldman says, study football fixture lists and search for any other special events which may increase loadings.

3. If a carriage seems busy, try another. Scotrail 170s have coaches A and B reserved but never C. In general you'll always find C to be a bit quieter. There's no predicting whether C will be at the front or the rear, or even if it will be marked as such. Just look out for the seatback reservation labels before you get on. Don't worry about reserving a seat in one carriage and sitting in another, it won't be challenged in my experience.

4. Check prices for First Class, or weekend upgrades which may be quite cheap, although I'm out of touch on how these work on Scotrail since the First Advance card was done away with. You can make an advance purchase which will put you in the First Class section of Coach A on a 170 but sit in the unreserved FC compartment in Coach C which is very likely to be completely empty. The only risk of course is that if the train becomes overloaded (eg football match) and ticket checks break down, a loud crowded ride in one of the tiny First Class sections may be more stressful than Standard.

5. Again this is more a weekday thing, but trains that leave Glasgow crowded in the evening peak are often the quietest once they clear Stirling, Bridge of Allan and Dunblane. I'm more familiar with the Inverness line, and there the most crowded trains are generally the mid afternoon ones.

I hope this is helpful, I know there are others on this forum who are very familiar with services through Tayside and who may be able to add more.

 

[glenbogle]

During the week 1909 Queen St - Dundee is the quietest. It's usually quiet on a Saturday too if no major football matches on.

 

[92002]

During the week 1909 Queen St - Dundee is the quietest. It's usually quiet on a Saturday too if no major football matches on.

Weekdays the overwhelming problem between Glasgow and Stirling is caused by students going go the University. Though even after then trains can be busy.

Weekends the problem is more sports events.

One of the main problems in strengthening trains are those nasty people at Southern who took over the lease of 4 x 170s. They have yet to enter service there. However it seems the need was greater there.

 

[47271]

Weekdays the overwhelming problem between Glasgow and Stirling is caused by students going go the University. Though even after then trains can be busy.

Weekends the problem is more sports events.

One of the main problems in strengthening trains are those nasty people at Southern who took over the lease of 4 x 170s. They have yet to enter service there. However it seems the need was greater there.

To be fair to the present dmu situation in Scotland and the transfer of four 170s to Southern, a subject given more than ample recent coverage in other threads, there's a long tradition of Scotrail being unable to strengthen formations in the face of exceptional demand.

I had to drive from Aberdeen to Glasgow and back one day in 2011 in spite of having made an advance purchase for the train journey. The decision to take the car wasn't a difficult one when I discovered that the three car 170 I was planning to board was rammed full of Take That fans on their way to Hampden. I got my money back...

 

[GaryBrown156]

Thanks very much for the information and advice guys
Its very much appreciated
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A couple of days ago I briefly spoke to a gentleman at Queen Street Station and he advised me that it is much cheaper to buy a return ticket from Glasgow to Perth and a return from Perth to Dundee, than it is to buy a return from Glasgow to Dundee
Has anyone else heard of this?

I also spoke to my cousins and they are considering possibly catching a train on a Sunday morning so I have took your advice 47271 and told them to Avoid Aberdeen bound trains and to check the football fixtures
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I just had a quick look at the ScotRail Sunday timetable and there doesn't appear to be any morning services from Glasgow QS that terminate at Dundee, they both (the 09.37 & the 10.45) continue on to Aberdeen, the services that terminate at Dundee on a Sunday all appear to originate from Edinburgh Waverley.

Does anyone know how busy the 09.37 & the 10.45 from Glasgow QS usually are?

If neither of these are subtable then i think a Saturday may be a better bet

 

[92002]

Thanks very much for the information and advice guys
Its very much appreciated
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A couple of days ago I briefly spoke to a gentleman at Queen Street Station and he advised me that it is much cheaper to buy a return ticket from Glasgow to Perth and a return from Perth to Dundee, than it is to buy a return from Glasgow to Dundee
Has anyone else heard of this?

I also spoke to my cousins and they are considering possibly catching a train on a Sunday morning so I have took your advice 47271 and told them to Avoid Aberdeen bound trains and to check the football fixtures
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I just had a quick look at the ScotRail Sunday timetable and there doesn't appear to be any morning services from Glasgow QS that terminate at Dundee, they both (the 09.37 & the 10.45) continue on to Aberdeen, the services that terminate at Dundee on a Sunday all appear to originate from Edinburgh Waverley.

Does anyone know how busy the 09.37 & the 10.45 from Glasgow QS usually are?

If neither of these are subtable then i think a Saturday may be a better bet

No Dundee terminators on a Sunday.

Unless there is a major sporting event, Sunday is usually reasonable. Much less so than a Saturday. Which is best avoided if the choice is there.

 

[47271]

I only have experience of Sunday evening travel and that's quiet enough. Still watch for big events and the inevitable engineering works - keep an eye on Real Time Trains before setting off.

 

[cb a1]

A couple of days ago I briefly spoke to a gentleman at Queen Street Station and he advised me that it is much cheaper to buy a return ticket from Glasgow to Perth and a return from Perth to Dundee, than it is to buy a return from Glasgow to Dundee
Has anyone else heard of this?

Yes, very common to split at Perth or Stirling.

The reason is the normal return allows you to go via Edinburgh with a break of journey. So, if you want to go Glasgow -> Dundee -> Edinburgh -> Glasgow, you just need one return, not three singles.