sinclairtown
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Hi, I'm a new member. I'm asking about tickets on ScotRail network. Things may be different elsewhere.
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Why are ScotRail same-day return tickets 50% cheaper than a return on a later day ?
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From my view (it's an opinion), both encouraging day-trips and following the pricing rules that says that the more restrictive a ticket is, the cheaper it is
lyndhurst25
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“Because day tickets are less flexible” and “because that is the way it is in most countries” doesn’t really explain why, though. Travelling back on a different day doesn’t inconvenience or impose extra costs on the railway, or anyone else. I think the real reason is “because they can”!
MarlowDonkey
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I don't know when the practice was first introduced, but it was a feature of British Railways ticketing sixty years ago.
It's to do with the historic fares structure.
An Open Return was basically the cost of what we would know today as two Anytime Singles
Day returns were offered at a considerable discount to the open return encourage leisure travel
These days we tend to think of the Day Return as being the 'normal' fare and anything costing more than this is considered 'expensive'.
We should think of the 'normal' fare as being the Open Return (ie Anytime Return) and regard anything costing less than this as being 'cheap'.
Over the years off peak versions ended up being introduced but the basics principles are still very much the same. I'm not defending it, just explaining why it is. It's unlikely to change because if Anytime fares became cheaper then who is going to make up the revenue loss?
An Open Return was basically the cost of what we would know today as two Anytime Singles
Day returns were offered at a considerable discount to the open return encourage leisure travel
These days we tend to think of the Day Return as being the 'normal' fare and anything costing more than this is considered 'expensive'.
We should think of the 'normal' fare as being the Open Return (ie Anytime Return) and regard anything costing less than this as being 'cheap'.
Over the years off peak versions ended up being introduced but the basics principles are still very much the same. I'm not defending it, just explaining why it is. It's unlikely to change because if Anytime fares became cheaper then who is going to make up the revenue loss?
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Established Member
A part of the ticket is flexibility. You pay a premium for flexibility, it's exactly the same thing in any transport system that is not a local one. It entices people that can pay (business persons) to pay and people that can't pay (mostly leisure) to pay less and the company gets a guaranteed pile of money in some cases.
It's a way for both the carrier to make money while allowing as much of a diverse population to travel.
A advance return will be less than 2x advance singles because you loose flexibility of when you want to come back.
A fixed no-change airline return will cost dramatically less than 2 fixed no-change one-way, because people that don't know when they want to come back are a lot more likely to have the will to pay more than your usual leisure traveller. + they get to keep the fare no risk involved.
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lyndhurst25
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Like I said, it’s “because they can”
Alice and Bob commute to work in the same city by train. They work part time, say two or three days per week, so not worth buying a season ticket. Alice does day shifts, Bob does nights. Alice buys day returns. Bob has to pay much more for the “flexibility” of coming back the next day by having to buy expensive singles, even though he is travelling against the commuter flow. Bob is saving up to buy a car.
Like I said, it’s “because they can”
Alice and Bob commute to work in the same city by train. They work part time, say two or three days per week, so not worth buying a season ticket. Alice does day shifts, Bob does nights. Alice buys day returns. Bob has to pay much more for the “flexibility” of coming back the next day by having to buy expensive singles, even though he is travelling against the commuter flow. Bob is saving up to buy a car.
If the three night shifts are consecutive, then Bob can actually reduce his cost to less than Alice.
Alice has to take the morning peak and evening offpeak or if both are off-peak, then the cheap day return.
Bob only has to buy offpeak open return on night 1, and a day return (from work to home) on day 2 and day 3, using the return portion on morning of day 4. If he can time these to be after 9:30, he can also make use of railcard discount.
Have a few night time mates who actually save on the commute when compared to day shifts. Ofcourse only works when there are consecutive days.
Northerngirl
Member
You assume that someone going out on a Friday and back on Sunday will have been paying for 2 nights, so you realise that they won't be worried by an extra £10 for the train, very unethical but that sums up most of the ticketing in this country
Unfortunately it's highly variable. There aren't any day return options for, say, Maybole - Stranraer, Newtongrange - Glasgow or Falkirk - Cupar, despite not being all that far or taking all that long, or being difficult to make an out and back on the same day.
Except of course where the opposite is true!
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miklcct
On Moderation
I have travelled to about a dozen countries and haven't encountered anywhere else where day tickets are priced this ridiculous way. Most of the places I travelled to either don't have day tickets, or with the day tickets priced at more than 3 singles (commonly at the price of about 5 to 8 singles so aimed for tourists making a lot of trips).
Having a reasonably priced day ticket which costs less than 2 singles is a disincentive to people who only want to travel 1 or 2 single journeys.
I have travelled to 51 countries and hundreds of cities; I stand by my original observation. The fares structures in some cities do work in the way you describe, but in my experience far more have day tickets - particularly for off-peak travel or at weekends - that are little more than the cost of a ticket.
I agree it's a disincentive to making single journeys, but as the saying goes - you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
BlueLeanie
Member
It's about revenue protection.
The big problem with the Open return is that it would be valid for a month on routes that have carnets available.
So say Bob knows that the gates are open at Edinburgh Park and Linlithgow after 18:00 each evening. He buys an open return on Monday 12th August, and his ticket carnet. Then uses the Carnet for the 3 days a week he's traveling to work the rest of the month, but relies on the open return to get him home until the ticket is checked.
He might be able to use the Return portion of the Open Return ticket for the entire month as it hasn't passed through a barrier or been zapped/clipped.
The big problem with the Open return is that it would be valid for a month on routes that have carnets available.
So say Bob knows that the gates are open at Edinburgh Park and Linlithgow after 18:00 each evening. He buys an open return on Monday 12th August, and his ticket carnet. Then uses the Carnet for the 3 days a week he's traveling to work the rest of the month, but relies on the open return to get him home until the ticket is checked.
He might be able to use the Return portion of the Open Return ticket for the entire month as it hasn't passed through a barrier or been zapped/clipped.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Day Returns having a limit of about 50 miles (varies a lot between TOCs) is one of the prime reasons split ticketing is beneficial, because a chain of Day Returns can be a lot cheaper than the end-to-end fare which won't have a Day Return option.
Some TOCs don't have Day Returns (eg Merseyrail), and others have a mid-price Off-Peak Return instead (eg TfW).
Day Returns aren't always more restrictive - they might have time restrictions, but they have no break of journey restrictions.
Some TOCs don't have Day Returns (eg Merseyrail), and others have a mid-price Off-Peak Return instead (eg TfW).
Day Returns aren't always more restrictive - they might have time restrictions, but they have no break of journey restrictions.
anothertyke
Member
Because price discrimination increases traffic and revenue for the operator relative to simple fare per mile pricing wherever the market sensitivities (or elasticities) are different. And in this case there are good reasons and evidence that the day return market is more price sensitive than the period return market.
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