Why are TOCs allowed to enforce bylaws?

[TUC]

In a dispute I had with National Express on a station car parking issue I was struck by how they referred to railway bylaws on the issue.

This led me to thinking about the principle of TOCs having the power to enforce bylaws. Other private companies dealing with the public, such as supermarkets, don't have their own bylaws so why should raiilway companies? If someone wrongly parks in an Asda car park, Asda have usually to rely on civil processes, they have no inherent right to change a parking fine so why should a TOC?

I can see a case for laws about specific actions on the railway such as trespassing on tracks bu that would be a matter enforcable by BTP, not a TOC.

This isn't an anti-TOC issue. Personally I have no problem with the principle of private companies running rail services but to give a private company powers to enforce legislation seems to me to be a very different matter.

 

[rail-britain]

The Transport Act allows this, basically develovment from BR to the relevant body or TOC
The operator of the car park, in this case the TOC can then either enforce it themselves or employ a third party

 

[TUC]

The Transport Act allows this, basically develovment from BR to the relevant body or TOC
The operator of the car park, in this case the TOC can then either enforce it themselves or employ a third party

I recognise that's the legal basis of it. My question was whether the position is wrong in principle.

 

[tony_mac]

Some other private companies do have byelaw powers, I think including tunnel, bridge and toll-road operators.
It was probably decided that, in these special cases, they needed the ability to deal with certain circumstance for the public good. (Or, either the state or a powerful lobby group wished to protect their financial interests).

 

[Greenback]

I don't see a problem myself, but I have never given the matter that much thought.

Were railway byelaws created when the ralways wrre nationalised, or were they created when the railways first came into being?

 

[driver9000]

I don't see a problem myself, but I have never given the matter that much thought.

Were railway byelaws created when the ralways wrre nationalised, or were they created when the railways first came into being?

As far as I'm aware byelaws have been in existence since railways began. I've seen reference to them from pre grouping days.

 

[185]

For car parking, it's probably for ensuring the railway's enforcement powers are similar to that local councils have. But I do think a lot of companies are cowardly in hiding behind them over several matters.

I despise train companies which charge for car parking at stations. It's stupid and deters people from using the train - surely missing entire the point of running a railway?

Manchester-London, 2 adults, £53. Petrol, parking & M6 Toll.
Manchester-London, 2 adults, £120. Virgin Trains, off peak.

 

[Aictos]

I don't see a problem myself, but I have never given the matter that much thought.

Were railway byelaws created when the ralways wrre nationalised, or were they created when the railways first came into being?

The Railway Act 1962, Section 67 enables byelaws regulating the use of the railways to be issued.

The current railway byelaws are enforced by Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority (the “Authority”) and confirmed under Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Secretary of State for Transport on 22 June 2005 for regulating the use and working of, and travel on or by means of, railway assets, the maintenance of order on railway assets and the conduct of all persons while on railway assets (the “Byelaws”).

 

[Zoe]

Manchester-London, 2 adults, £53. Petrol, parking & M6 Toll.
Manchester-London, 2 adults, £120. Virgin Trains, off peak.

The train fare can be much cheaper if you book in advance.

 

[Wyvern]

Yes but you aren't going to "miss" your car and get stung.

You can come and go more or less as you like

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . . were they created when the railways first came into being?

The original 1889 Act included this:

7 Power to make byelaws as to stations.
The power conferred on a railway company by the Railways Clauses Consolidation Act, 1845, and the Railways Clauses Consolidation Act (Scotland), 1845, to make byelaws subject to disallowance by the Board of Trade, shall include power to make byelaws for maintaining order in, and regulating the use of, railway stations and the approaches thereto.

Its not uncommon for Public bodies to be granted the right to create and manage their own Byelaws for the regulation of their own land and facilities, Local Authorities have that power and use it to regulate open spaces etc.
What is a little unusual in the history of Byelaws is the extent to which privatisation has transferred those rights to Commercial Companies, albeit overseen by a State Regulator (alledgedly).

 

[exile]

I think Railways were seen as a special case, like ships (when you board a ship you are effectively under the command of the captain and obliged to do whatever he says, ie abandon ship when he tells you to, etc).

 

[WestCoast]

Yes but you aren't going to "miss" your car and get stung.

You can come and go more or less as you like

Until you get stuck in traffic! Rail doesn't just compete on price...

 

[TUC]

I think Railways were seen as a special case, like ships (when you board a ship you are effectively under the command of the captain and obliged to do whatever he says, ie abandon ship when he tells you to, etc).

But not at a station. Why shouldn't TOCs have to rely on civil routes to enforce car parking just like any other company?

 

[mumrar]

For car parking, it's probably for ensuring the railway's enforcement powers are similar to that local councils have. But I do think a lot of companies are cowardly in hiding behind them over several matters.

I despise train companies which charge for car parking at stations. It's stupid and deters people from using the train - surely missing entire the point of running a railway?

Manchester-London, 2 adults, £53. Petrol, parking & M6 Toll.
Manchester-London, 2 adults, £120. Virgin Trains, off peak.

The M6 toll costs £4.70 for a car on a weekday, how much would a days parking cost? Are you parking outside the congestion charge zone and bus/tube in from there? That will leave you about £25 for your fuel (if I'm generous) and take you around 4 hours for the 208 mile trip via M6 and M1.

The reason stations charge for car parking is quite simple, people would use them for free to get to local shops, work etc. rather than pay elsewhere.

 

[exile]

Until you get stuck in traffic! Rail doesn't just compete on price...

That depends on number of people travelling, whether you've bought an advance ticket, what type of car you have, how much it costs to you to park at your destination, etc.

eg - trip to Manchester today

- train - £10.80 return for two
- car - 45 mile journey - approx 5 litres = £7
- depreciation, wear and tear - 10p per mile - £4.50
- plus parking - £6.90 for 4 hours

- train £10.80, car £17.50

And my car is small and economical.

 

[Old Timer]

...What is a little unusual in the history of Byelaws is the extent to which privatisation has transferred those rights to Commercial Companies, albeit overseen by a State Regulator (alledgedly).

The original Railway Companies were Commecial Companies. The UKs Railways were only under public ownership from 1948 to 1994.

A similar situation applied to canals.

 

[Zoe]

The M6 toll costs £4.70 for a car on a weekday, how much would a days parking cost? Are you parking outside the congestion charge zone and bus/tube in from there? That will leave you about £25 for your fuel (if I'm generous) and take you around 4 hours for the 208 mile trip via M6 and M1.

The cost of the M6 Toll could be avoided though by just using the M6.