Why doesn't National Rail Enquiries show faster itineraries? (e.g. Sheffield > Crewe)

[All Line Rover]

The cheapest return ticket from Crewe to Sheffield (44 miles) costs £41. Hardly "cheap". The cheapest return ticket from Crewe to Manchester (28 miles) costs £11 by comparison. One would therefore expect the service between Crewe and Sheffield to be at least as good as the service between Crewe and Manchester.

The shortest route from Crewe to Sheffield by rail is via Stockport. On a weekday evening, there are no trains from Sheffield to Stockport (on to Manchester) between 20:31 and 22:11. That is pathetic. But I am more concerned by the fact that National Rail Enquires suggests that the last possible return itinerary from Sheffield to Crewe is the 20:35 from Sheffield to Manchester (an all-stations Northern service) followed by the 22:36 from Manchester to Crewe (arriving in Crewe at 23:10, so an overall journey time of 2h 35m), when there is a train at 20:58 from Sheffield to Tamworth (arriving at 21:49) which connects with the 22:15 from Tamworth to Crewe (arriving in Crewe at, also, 23:10, so an overall journey time of 2h 12m).

There is also a train at 21:29 from Sheffield to Birmingham (arriving at 22:51), which connects with the 23:09 from Birmingham to Crewe (arriving in Crewe at 00:22, so an overall journey time of 2h 53m).

There is, finally, a train at 22:00 from Sheffield to Tamworth (arriving at 23:05), which connects with the 23:26 Virgin Trains service (22:00 ex. Euston) to Crewe (calling at Lichfield and Stafford, arriving in Crewe at 00:17, so an overall journey time of 2h 17m). This latter itinerary cannot be relied upon because the 22:00 from Euston, while calling at Milton Keynes, Rugby and Nuneaton in the usual way, is set-down-only at Tamworth, Lichfield and Stafford. This is very disappointing given that it connects conveniently at Tamworth with trains from a range of destinations (such as Sheffield - overtaking the 21:29 itinerary via Birmingham!) and is the last train of the day from Tamworth to Crewe (not so for Stafford which has later services to Crewe, and Lichfield isn't much of an interchange station).

Why, then, does National Rail Enquiries claim that the last itinerary from Sheffield to Crewe is at 20:35, when the last official itinerary is in fact at 21:29 and the last unofficial itinerary (which should, in truth, be official) is at 22:00? Travelling via Tamworth might not be valid according to the Routeing Guide (although if not, it should, in view of the pathetic service via Stockport), but NRE regularly displays itineraries which require more than one ticket where they are the fastest itineraries and/or the only itineraries available. Why not with the above itineraries at 20:58 and 21:29?

 

[Merseysider]

I raised the same query with National Rail Enq for a different route - Edinburgh to Birkenhead Central.

1813 Edb - Carlisle 1934
1949 Carlisle - Warrington BQ 2120
2126 Wbq - Chester 2155
2200 Chester - Birkenhead C 2234

This is not shown, despite overtaking the 1700 itinerary arr 2242 NRE gives changing at York, despite via York apparently needing two separate tickets!

The following itinerary NRE offers is 1852 arr 2342.

When I asked NRE about why the itinerary departing 1813 wasn't shown, their response was that it was a "red route" and thus shouldn't be shown as it could "confuse customers" (you can't make this stuff up!)

They were utterly incompetent, even going so far as to suggest passengers wouldn't want the (faster!) journey as it wasn't, according to them, a valid route, and I eventually gave up.

Completely useless.

Edit: There's also a problem with Manchester Piccadilly - Liverpool Lime Street. Travelling via Wigan is quicker than some of the stoppers and yet the journey via Wigan isn't shown. For some inexplicable reason this isn't a valid route.

Example:
1215 MAN - WGN 1243
1250 WGN - LIV 1327
1h12, not overtaken

Yet not shown by NRE

There's something of a pattern here...

 

[MichaelAMW]

The cheapest return ticket from Crewe to Sheffield (44 miles) costs £41. Hardly "cheap". The cheapest return ticket from Crewe to Manchester (28 miles) costs £11 by comparison. One would therefore expect the service between Crewe and Sheffield to be at least as good as the service between Crewe and Manchester.

You are, of course, not comparing fairly. The Crewe to Sheffield ticket is a return that is valid for one month without time or TOC restriction; the Crewe to Manchester ticket is a day return that is valid off peak only and by Virgin trains only. What is wrong is that this is a particularly poor example of where a day return or even cheap day return is not available for a relatively short journey. You can save about £12 by splitting your ticket and going off peak.

As for your comments about timetables and routes, see previous threads: the routeing guide tells us, without apparently any justification, that we all want to go via the shortest route, so these longer ways round using "trunk" routes with later services naturally don't interest us - apparently.

 

[All Line Rover]

I deliberately used the word "cheapest". It is a fair comparison in that context.

When travelling from Crewe to Manchester the "VT Only" ticket tends to be the most suitable - an hourly service on the fastest and most comfortable trains between Crewe and Manchester - unless returning late in the evening (in which case one must buy an "Any Permitted" fare at a shockingly expensive £13!).

I wished to travel to an evening conference in Sheffield, which finishes at 8pm. I won't be going, because if I miss the 20:31 (or 20:35), I could be stranded.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And my regular beef, that Chester-Norwich is only offered via Peterborough, despite usually being faster (and sometimes cheaper) via London.

If this "shortest route" thing persists, life will get more complicated when HS2 arrives.

For all these "no tickets available" or "you need 2 tickets" situations, why can't the system simply work out the ticketing combinations and make you an offer?
It's not rocket science. Oh, maybe it is!