Why isn't Underground London Bridge - Southwark - Waterloo - Charing Cross an interavailable section with National Rail?

[miklcct]

On a lot of sections where there are both National Rail and Underground services between the same station sequence, the tickets are interavailable, for example, Finsbury Park - Kings Cross or Stratford - Liverpool Street.

London Bridge - Charing Cross is also a section with both tube and National Rail services on the same sequence of stations as well, but why don't they interavailable sections?

 

[MikeWh]

Don't know!

London Bridge - Southwark - Waterloo is only relatively recent (was it 1999?). Have they added new interavailability since privatisation? Most of the existing ones are either lengthy sections (eg Upminster to Fenchurch Street) or have historical reasons (eg between Kings Cross and Moorgate).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I can think of at least two reasons:

- if I’ve understood things properly, Upminster - London and similarly Amersham - London have trains running from either the same or nearby platforms regardless of whether they are National Rail or LUL services - it makes sense to have interavailability rather than have confused passengers. In the example now proposed, the National Rail and LUL services run from substantially separate platforms so there isn’t the same likelihood of confusion.
- Oyster. With daily capping there’s less need for inter availability in that in effect it’s already there and can be used on buses as well. One ticket (even one contactless card) will let you travel without having to worry any further whether it’s the right one.

 

[miklcct]

I can think of at least two reasons:

- if I’ve understood things properly, Upminster - London and similarly Amersham - London have trains running from either the same or nearby platforms regardless of whether they are National Rail or LUL services - it makes sense to have interavailability rather than have confused passengers. In the example now proposed, the National Rail and LUL services run from substantially separate platforms so there isn’t the same likelihood of confusion.
- Oyster. With daily capping there’s less need for inter availability in that in effect it’s already there and can be used on buses as well. One ticket (even one contactless card) will let you travel without having to worry any further whether it’s the right one.

The Thameslink interavailability has nothing to do with this. It operates at a separate part of the station, unlike Stratford - London / Upminster - West Ham interavailability.

 

[Hadders]

The Thameslink inter-availability goes back to the 1970s (I think) and the closure of the hotel curve between Kings Cross and the widened lines. The inter-availability was introduced to still allow passengers to make the journey. Also, until reletively recently, there was no evening or weekend National Rail service between Finsbury Park and Moorgate so inter-availability also existed to allow these journey opportunities to be made. This was all during an era when Travelcards and Oyster didn't exist.

The Jubilee Line at London Bridge is physically separate to the National Rail platforms, no jounrey opportunities were removed when the Jubilee Line extension opened in 1999 so there wasn't a desire to offer any inter-availability.

 

[hkstudent]

Unless the Jubilee Line were shut, it's unlikely to have interavailability between Charing Cross and London Bridge with London Underground.

Even when you see the Bank Branch closure, with expected diversion of passengers from Waterloo-London Bridge Jubilee Line to Southeastern Waterloo East - London Bridge, there were no ticket acceptable in place.

 

[swt_passenger]

Stratford to Liverpool St is another case of an existing mainline route being taken over and diverted by LU, in this case the Central Line, both the former mainline stations north of Leytonstone and the original route through Newbury Park etc that used to have a service into Liverpool St via Ilford. Track was not used much by passenger trains after 1947, but remained into the 90s IIRC.

Didn’t the eastern end of the district line originally have platforms on all four tracks at most stationss? That would also explain dual ticketing.

But a route such as London bridge to Charing Cross doesn’t have that sort of historic change of operator or transfer of responsibility, the Jubilee line was an additional albeit parallel route.

I think there’s very little point in new dual availability as local journeys are now generally made on Oyster or Contactless.

 

[miklcct]

The Thameslink inter-availability goes back to the 1970s (I think) and the closure of the hotel curve between Kings Cross and the widened lines. The inter-availability was introduced to still allow passengers to make the journey. Also, until reletively recently, there was no evening or weekend National Rail service between Finsbury Park and Moorgate so inter-availability also existed to allow these journey opportunities to be made. This was all during an era when Travelcards and Oyster didn't exist.

The Jubilee Line at London Bridge is physically separate to the National Rail platforms, no jounrey opportunities were removed when the Jubilee Line extension opened in 1999 so there wasn't a desire to offer any inter-availability.

The Thameslink interavailability I'm talking about is West Hampstead / Kentish Town to London Thameslink on the Jubilee / Northern lines. Tickets to London Thameslink (without Not Underground restrictions) can be used between West Hampstead / Kentish Town and Elephant & Castle / London Bridge on the tube.

Each mode runs from a separate part of the station at all the stations, similar to the London Bridge - Charing Cross one I'm talking about.