Wigan to Kirkby Signalling

[joke2711]

Apologies for sounding like an idiot but on another forum there were discussions about the introduction of a later shuttle service between Wigan Wallgate and Kirkby.

The consensus was that this would be depend on the signal box at Rainford Junction being staffed later by National Rail.

My question is why?

If a train departs Wallgate and takes the Kirkby Branch surely there must be a signal that could be held at Red until the service has returned up the same line, so the points could be set at Rainford and there is no need to switch nor would another service be able to travel down the same track

I'm sure there any many reasons and perhaps I am just over simplifying something I know nothing about!!??

Just interested in the reasons why ...

Look forward to being politely told off

J

 

[Jonny]

Apologies for sounding like an idiot but on another forum there were discussions about the introduction of a later shuttle service between Wigan Wallgate and Kirkby.

The consensus was that this would be depend on the signal box at Rainford Junction being staffed later by National Rail.

My question is why?

If a train departs Wallgate and takes the Kirkby Branch surely there must be a signal that could be held at Red until the service has returned up the same line, so the points could be set at Rainford and there is no need to switch nor would another service be able to travel down the same track

I'm sure there any many reasons and perhaps I am just over simplifying something I know nothing about!!??

Just interested in the reasons why ...

Look forward to being politely told off

J

Large parts, including the intermediate stations, are double-track so some signalling supervision "upstream" from Wigan will be necessary. Basically, the train heads to Kirkby on one pair of tracks and returns on the other. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkby_Branch_Line which has links to the station pages, photos of the stations, etc.

 

[splashoutradio]

According to the Netowrk Rail Compenduim of Signal Box Opening times, Rainford box is open from 06:15 to 20:15 Monday to Saturday. So, under current opening hours, it would probably be possible to run a bit later (or retime the last train to run 40 mins or so later).

 

[mwmbwls]

Large parts, including the intermediate stations, are double-track so some signalling supervision "upstream" from Wigan will be necessary.

The double track section extends from the junction at Wigan Wallgate to just beyond Rainford (Junction) Station.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/6793264710_0c74b01b77_b.jpg
The signal box has something of a lean-on and now requires bracing at the back. In addition to passenger trains to Kirkby, freight trains, both general and bin liners, operate along the branch to Potters Yard at Simonswood, just east of Kirkby.

 

[Tomnick]

Quite simple - there's no provision in the signalling for any sort of regular reversible working over either of the two lines between Wallgate and Kirkby - something which isn't taken lightly, and requires some sort of protection against a head-on collision. Sometimes the facility is provided to switch out a single line box and work with a 'long section' straight through, but I don't know if this has ever been done at the transition between absolute block (double line) and one train working!

 

[STANDISH]

Do we assume at some point both the Wigan Box and Rainford are going to disappear the line will be controlled from Manchester ?

 

[Llama]

The double track section extends from the junction at Wigan Wallgate to just beyond Rainford (Junction) Station.
The signal box has something of a lean-on and now requires bracing at the back. In addition to passenger trains to Kirkby, freight trains, both general and bin liners, operate along the branch to Potters Yard at Simonswood, just east of Kirkby.

Not for the last five+ years it hasn't, the points at Dale Lane ground frame are out of commission partly due to the metal fairies and there are plenty of saplings now in the headshunt near Headbolt Lane. There have never been any bin liner trains down there to the best of my knowledge.

 

[snowball]

Do we assume at some point both the Wigan Box and Rainford are going to disappear the line will be controlled from Manchester ?

The whole north-west will be eventually, it's just a question of whether it's the near or far future.

 

[Wavertreelad]

I also don't believe there have been any bin-liner trains along the route due to clearance problems amongst other things. There are plans to clear the route to do this due to a new traffic commencing from the Potter facility at Kirkby, which might result in some changes to the signalling etc. Merseytravel are also due to announce next month their long term plans for services and infrastructure improvements in the region and this may include developments along the Kirkby route. There is further detail of the proposals on from this post onwards.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1863953&postcount=134

 

[mwmbwls]

I also don't believe there have been any bin-liner trains along the route due to clearance problems amongst other things. There are plans to clear the route to do this due to a new traffic commencing from the Potter facility at Kirkby, which might result in some changes to the signalling etc. Merseytravel are also due to announce next month their long term plans for services and infrastructure improvements in the region and this may include developments along the Kirkby route. There is further detail of the proposals on from this post onwards.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1863953&postcount=134

Thank you, I stand corrected. I was aware that planning permission for the extension of the sidings at Knowsley Industrial Park had been granted by West Lancashire Borough Council (as the terminal is located just across the boundary with Knowsley). I was also aware of the media releases made by the Potter Group in 2013.

http://www.potterlogistics.co.uk/news-media/potter-logistics-wins-20-million-deal-with-sita-uk/

“Potter Logistics has secured a 30 year contract worth in excess of £20m with SITA UK, leading recovery, recycling and waste management company.
Potter’s rail freight terminal at the Knowsley Industrial Park in Knowsley, Merseyside has been selected by SITA UK as the preferred site for a rail connected waste transfer station. The facility supports the €1.4 billion Merseyside and Halton Waste Resource and Recovery Contract for which SITA UK has been appointed as Preferred Bidder by Merseyside Recycling and Waste Authority (MRWA) on Friday 19th April.
The new waste transfer station will handle over 430,000 tonnes of residual household waste collected annually from Merseyside and Halton region. The waste will then be transported by rail to a new, purpose built, energy-from-waste site in Teesside owned and operated by SITA UK. At this facility more than 90% of the contract waste will be diverted from landfill and used to produce energy.
Matthew Lamb, managing director of Potter Logistics comments, “This 30 year contract is unique in the energy recovery and logistics sector, and is a major coup for Potter Logistics.
“Our Knowsley rail freight terminal was chosen by SITA UK from six possible rail accessed sites in the Merseyside region as the preferred location for its new multimodal waste transfer station. The terminal benefits from the ability to handle longer, 600 metre plus trains. It also has excellent road links to the rest of the North West with easy access to the national motorway network.
“With two daily trains operating between Knowsley and Teesside, Potter Logistics intends to switch certain traffic from road to rail by utilising additional capacity on these rail services. This will secure additional freight between the ports of Liverpool and Teesside, providing an economic and environmentally friendly freight corridor.”
Potter Logistics is a family owned warehouse, distribution and rail freight terminal operator with expertise in specialist industry sectors. The company has six distribution centres located in Ely, Droitwich, Knowsley, Selby, Ripon and York, three of which have rail freight terminals”.

However the devil is in the detail and tucked away in the Wigan Council Rail freight study is a corker of a snag.

https://www.wigan.gov.uk/Docs/PDF/C...Transport-Strategy/RailfreightStudyREPORT.pdf

A small independently owned terminal, which potentially can provide shippers and receivers in the Wigan area with a suitable intermodal terminal. The Network Rail route directory map shows the terminal has having W9 loading gauge. However, Network Rail now concede that this is an error and that the gauge is actually W7 (thereby requiring the use of low deck-height wagons for intermodal traffics). The main restricting overline structure is the bridge carrying the West Coast Main Line over the Wigan Wallgate-Kirby line”.

 

[Wavertreelad]

The Potter contract I believe may also be at the centre of a dispute because it involves taking the waste to Teesside for disposal although I am not sure of the full details. However, next month Merseytravel is due to publish it's 30 year strategy which will form the strategic transport plan for the Greater Liverpool Combined Authority. Previous "aspirations" have included opening a new station at Headbolt Lane Kirkby and/or extending the Merseyrail service to Skelmersdale or Wigan. Whilst currently the Peel site at Knowsley 700 is not directly rail connected it probably could be connected although as yet the future use of the site is not yet clear, it would be still be restricted by the same constraints as the nearby Potter site.

However, I believe Peel in anticipation of the opening of Liverpool2 and other freight flows to and from the Port of Liverpool may be looking at alternative routes to the WCML as it is anticipated that the current route via Chat Moss could be near capacity in a few years time. The Kirkby to Wigan route could offer an alternative route, but would require a connection to be constructed on the southern side of Kirkdale Station with the Bootle Branch which passes under the Liverpool Kirkby line at this point. Such a development would probably not be required for several years yet but together with previous Merseytravel aspirations to extend the Merseyrail network towards Wigan could make a joint bid for funding a better business case for the route.