Will live Railwayana auctions ever resume?

[Ashley Hill]

Following on from my previous thread, today I attended my first live post-Covid auction for a number of years.

The excellent Talisman auction at Templecombe today took me back to the happy days of live auctions. There was brisk bidding, interaction with the auctioneer, fair prices and a jolly good time had.

Together with the stalls outside and a ride on the train an excellent day was had. It was also a very sociable day out and caught up with many collectors who I have not seen for a long time.

Will a time come when the other major players like GWRA and GCRA ever hold a live auction again, or are they now intrenched on the internet?

 

[Gloster]

Once the novelty of live auctions wears off, will there be enough people willing enough and fit enough to travel to them? I suspect the market is declining and the majority of those interested are ageing.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Once the novelty of live auctions wears off, will there be enough people willing enough and fit enough to travel to them? I suspect the market is declining and the majority of those interested are ageing.

Well this one was well attended and yes most were 50 plus, however it shows there is still demand. The market is still very buoyant and nothing is getting cheaper.

In 20 years time the steam side may perhaps decline but the interest in BR, sectorisation and privatisation items is growing.

 

[32475]

I really look forward to attending a live auction again and hats off to the auction houses who have kept things going online during covid. Nothing beats the excitement and atmosphere of a real live event where you can properly inspect the items you want to bid for, chat with fellow enthusiasts and look through the wares of the stall holders. The latter are always handy for buying a consolation prize if your auction bids are unsuccessful because no one wants to go home empty handed. All this accompanied by piping hot coffee from paper cups and the faint smell of fried bacon and onions. However much you try, you don’t get this online!

 

[32475]

I just looked at the realisations for the Talisman Templecombe auction. I’d say there were some healthy sales and a few bargains and wish I’d been able to get there myself. As for steam nameplates there were several that didn’t sell which is nothing unusual however the high end plates such as Merchant Navy / West Country weren’t achieving the sort of prices they would have a few years ago (in my humble opinion).

 

[Ashley Hill]

What is needed is a venue that is easy to get to. As nice as the Gartell Railway is it’s a bit off the beaten track.
The old Twyford auctions had a good venue at Loddon Hall. Only a short walk from the station so no long drives home. Kidlington was ok but suffered from poor parking hence the move to Stonleigh. The trouble is it’s a bit difficult to get to unless you live that way. The Brunel Shed at Bristol TM would be an excellent venue as it is large and easy to get to. What do others think?

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I don't go to auctions, as I haven't got the money to buy anything!

However, I would have thought that ample car parking would be essential because of the need for the buyer to take their things home with them, assuming they're not delivered. As far as I can see, many of the things that are sold are pretty bulky and impossible to carry by public transport.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The other problem with online auctions is that the current big three auction houses all have their auctions within weeks of each other. At least the live auctions of old were spread evenly throughout the year.

 

[Trainlog]

Though i have always enjoyed reading in Steamrailway the highlights of what has been sold in the auction houses from Station signs to old loco nameplates, i do think its a shame that there isn't more general Railwayana fairs aswell as the thing that puts people off auctions is that they don't want to sit through ages of lots till there is something they want.

By having a fair option it would be a good way for heritage railways to make revenue through entrance fees and stand commissions plus it can allow for antiques dealers to make money by coming along and showing off any railwayana that has been stuck in the shop for ages and has yet to find a buyer for it.

 

[32475]

Though i have always enjoyed reading in Steamrailway the highlights of what has been sold in the auction houses from Station signs to old loco nameplates, i do think its a shame that there isn't more general Railwayana fairs aswell as the thing that puts people off auctions is that they don't want to sit through ages of lots till there is something they want.

By having a fair option it would be a good way for heritage railways to make revenue through entrance fees and stand commissions plus it can allow for antiques dealers to make money by coming along and showing off any railwayana that has been stuck in the shop for ages and has yet to find a buyer for it.

The Great Central Railway swapmeet events at Quorn are very much what you are suggesting and seeking!

 

[Mollington St]

Make a date - The North West Rail and Transport Collectors Fair - Saturday June 24th 2023. At Crewe Alexandra FC
This is the second running of the event after the success of the inaugural Fair in June this year ( even with a Rail Strike on the Day )
With over 25 different traders ranging from professional book dealers , right through to a number of collectors thinning down their collections , so something for everyone at every price point.
With the event supporting the Railway Children Charity , your entrance admission will be donated to this very relevant and important charity

 

[Trainlog]

Make a date - The North West Rail and Transport Collectors Fair - Saturday June 24th 2023. At Crewe Alexandra FC
This is the second running of the event after the success of the inaugural Fair in June this year ( even with a Rail Strike on the Day )
With over 25 different traders ranging from professional book dealers , right through to a number of collectors thinning down their collections , so something for everyone at every price point.
With the event supporting the Railway Children Charity , your entrance admission will be donated to this very relevant and important charity

You know what it does sound like a good event and i am glad that the entrance fees is going to a important and deserving charity.

I might be tempted to go and see it as anything up to Crewe on WC and York on EC is achievable on a day trip from where i am. Where there any pieces of Railwayana such as lamps, original maps, old signalling pieces, etc etc that where there this year and potentially for next year?

 

[Mollington St]

In reply to your enquiry ref Railwayana on offer at the North West Rail and Transport Collectors Fair 2023 etc - Yes two different traders one from Yorkshire and one from Cheshire are Lamp and Hardware Specialists , there will also be two different collectors from the Midlands who I know also have a good mix of railwayana .
As for Maps what era are you interested in ?
I will start to list and detail all the different Stall Holders as they sign up and confirm.

 

[Trainlog]

In reply to your enquiry ref Railwayana on offer at the North West Rail and Transport Collectors Fair 2023 etc - Yes two different traders one from Yorkshire and one from Cheshire are Lamp and Hardware Specialists , there will also be two different collectors from the Midlands who I know also have a good mix of railwayana .
As for Maps what era are you interested in ?
I will start to list and detail all the different Stall Holders as they sign up and confirm.

Essentially when it comes to maps anything original condition, pre 1970s, official maps from the railway company or a published one from, for example Phillips or Bartholomews (i don't count inserted pages from an old Atlas).

Usually like UK ones but i do collect some international ones also.

Kinda specific i know but thanks for giving me a general idea of what to expect.

 

[Busaholic]

Once the novelty of live auctions wears off, will there be enough people willing enough and fit enough to travel to them? I suspect the market is declining and the majority of those interested are ageing.

I take it you're talking about auctions relating to public transport specifically?

 

[Ashley Hill]

I take it you're talking about auctions relating to public transport specifically?

Well I was thinking of railwayana but I know there are auctions catering for general transport items,bus,tram etc…

 

[Gloster]

I take it you're talking about auctions relating to public transport specifically?

Yes. It is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine, but I believe that the nature of enthusiasm will change as those who can remember steam, or even those who can only remember diesels, age, scale down or drop off the perch. There will always be some, but the number of people who are interested in a specific loco number plate or station sign will fall. The same applies to those who collect bus memorabilia, etc. Additionally, more and more hobbies seem to be becoming Internet-centred. If the movement does not start preparing for changes there are going to be a lot of nasty surprises and a lot of money wasted, which could have been used to keep the best bits going.

 

[Busaholic]

Yes. It is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine, but I believe that the nature of enthusiasm will change as those who can remember steam, or even those who can only remember diesels, age, scale down or drop off the perch. There will always be some, but the number of people who are interested in a specific loco number plate or station sign will fall. The same applies to those who collect bus memorabilia, etc. Additionally, more and more hobbies seem to be becoming Internet-centred. If the movement does not start preparing for changes there are going to be a lot of nasty surprises and a lot of money wasted, which could have been used to keep the best bits going.

I think you talk a lot of sense. I think my own, totally unorganised collection of bus and trolleybus books, magazines and paraphenalia probably wouldn't fetch much. My collection of 1950s and early 1960s bus timetables I'm planning to donate to Timetable World gratis, even though some might fetch £15 to £30 if I chose to try to sell them individually, which I won't.

 

[Mollington St]

My two pennyworths in this discussion , both as a collector and also a trader .

Yes the market has changed and is changing and will keep on changing -

Magazines - Rail/Bus/Tram - now can not even be given away , even complete runs of bound volumes struggle to attract buyers
Books - Rail/Bus /Tram - The staple Ian Allan , OPC, Bradford Barton and the like are all in my £1 box and after a couple of outings are then donated to various groups .
Timetables - Rail/Bus /Tram - Still a steady market , but some areas and companies are fast falling in value from a peak just 5 years ago
Badges - I just do not know enough to comment
Hardware - Its becoming very clear that Steam Era and any aspect of it is falling away from the peak values of pre covid times , while The Blue/Green Diesel/Electric era is still on the rise .

I attend 20+ events a year ( a mix of Bus/ Tram/Rail ) and run my own Web Site. Most events and open days/running days have had an uplift after covid , but not every event has come back .
My website sees its trade all year round with no real peaks or troughs , and even with having 15,000 plus items and over 100,000 still to add , i am still seeing interest across the hobby , but the cost of postage /carriage leads sales in many cases.

 

[32475]

My two pennyworths in this discussion , both as a collector and also a trader .

Yes the market has changed and is changing and will keep on changing -

Magazines - Rail/Bus/Tram - now can not even be given away , even complete runs of bound volumes struggle to attract buyers
Books - Rail/Bus /Tram - The staple Ian Allan , OPC, Bradford Barton and the like are all in my £1 box and after a couple of outings are then donated to various groups .
Timetables - Rail/Bus /Tram - Still a steady market , but some areas and companies are fast falling in value from a peak just 5 years ago
Badges - I just do not know enough to comment
Hardware - Its becoming very clear that Steam Era and any aspect of it is falling away from the peak values of pre covid times , while The Blue/Green Diesel/Electric era is still on the rise .

I attend 20+ events a year ( a mix of Bus/ Tram/Rail ) and run my own Web Site. Most events and open days/running days have had an uplift after covid , but not every event has come back .
My website sees its trade all year round with no real peaks or troughs , and even with having 15,000 plus items and over 100,000 still to add , i am still seeing interest across the hobby , but the cost of postage /carriage leads sales in many cases.

What is your website? (From a collector!)

 

[Mollington St]

Thank you for asking

Transport Past Times - If you can not see it ask as i make no exaggeration over 100,000 things to sort, scan and list

 

[32475]

Wow there’s a lot on there! I’ll have a proper browse through one evening.

 

[Gloster]

Its becoming very clear that Steam Era and any aspect of it is falling away from the peak values of pre covid times , while The Blue/Green Diesel/Electric era is still on the rise .

I doubt if the interest in Diesel/Electric will ever reach such a high peak as steam did and will also start to fall away in a few years. It is not just enthusiasts: a member of the general public might stop to see a steam loco if it passes, even if it isn’t the Flying Scotsman or Thomas, but a diesel, however unusual is unlikely to produce much interest. (Unless it is a Deltic at full throttle : “What the....was that?”)

 

[Mollington St]

I think the Blue/ Green Diesel /Electric is all about the age demographic

Being an enthusiast in say the 1970s/80s your now able to find that bit of spare cash to enjoy the hobby and maybe collect and have those things that where out of reach if you where a teenager .
Best example i can give , i never felt i could afford the Combined volume each year so just had the soft backed loco book for my under lining, but now i can afford to go back and buy a copy of an unmarked original 1970s/80s Combined Motive Power .

 

[Busaholic]

My two pennyworths in this discussion , both as a collector and also a trader .

Yes the market has changed and is changing and will keep on changing -

Magazines - Rail/Bus/Tram - now can not even be given away , even complete runs of bound volumes struggle to attract buyers
Books - Rail/Bus /Tram - The staple Ian Allan , OPC, Bradford Barton and the like are all in my £1 box and after a couple of outings are then donated to various groups .
Timetables - Rail/Bus /Tram - Still a steady market , but some areas and companies are fast falling in value from a peak just 5 years ago
Badges - I just do not know enough to comment
Hardware - Its becoming very clear that Steam Era and any aspect of it is falling away from the peak values of pre covid times , while The Blue/Green Diesel/Electric era is still on the rise .

I attend 20+ events a year ( a mix of Bus/ Tram/Rail ) and run my own Web Site. Most events and open days/running days have had an uplift after covid , but not every event has come back .
My website sees its trade all year round with no real peaks or troughs , and even with having 15,000 plus items and over 100,000 still to add , i am still seeing interest across the hobby , but the cost of postage /carriage leads sales in many cases.

Thanks, you've confirmed my suspicions. The only thing you haven't mentioned is maps, especially bus, tram and trolleybus ones, which I have a feeling (with a few exceptions) have also passed peak prices. The London Underground railway map has had so many different editions over the years that even some more recent ones are comparatively rare, but I doubt many of them would buy you more than a very cut price bottle of champagne (but at least postage costs wouldn't be too great!)

 

[Trainlog]

Thanks, you've confirmed my suspicions. The only thing you haven't mentioned is maps, especially bus, tram and trolleybus ones, which I have a feeling (with a few exceptions) have also passed peak prices. The London Underground railway map has had so many different editions over the years that even some more recent ones are comparatively rare, but I doubt many of them would buy you more than a very cut price bottle of champagne (but at least postage costs wouldn't be too great!)

When it comes to London Transport maps and pieces i remember going to the Theyton Bois transport exhibition last year, which though it wasn't much more than a Village hall exhibition there was a stall there that did sell London Transport maps such as Buses, tube and trolleybuses for a couple of quid in original condition!

 

[Mollington St]

Glad to have been able to offer some insight , in relation to Maps here are my thoughts

O/S 7th Series , cloth or not are always sort after as they show so much railway info pre beeching
LT Underground - Its historic and now many non-enthusiasts buy them and frame them up , say Map for year of birth etc , so the values are holding as a new market has opened up
LT Bus - Just too many out there and not enough changes to them year on year so no real following
LT Tram - Seem to be less tram follows than ever so a shrinking market
Bus and Rail Destination Blinds - if its the traditional white on black , values rising but forced up with all those people who cut up a blind into its seperate destinations , frame and sell on e bay and trendy home decor shops - History being destroyed in my mind

Just my thoughts - Oliver - Transport Past Times

 

[32475]

Yes. It is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine, but I believe that the nature of enthusiasm will change as those who can remember steam, or even those who can only remember diesels, age, scale down or drop off the perch. There will always be some, but the number of people who are interested in a specific loco number plate or station sign will fall. The same applies to those who collect bus memorabilia, etc. Additionally, more and more hobbies seem to be becoming Internet-centred. If the movement does not start preparing for changes there are going to be a lot of nasty surprises and a lot of money wasted, which could have been used to keep the best bits going.

Interesting thoughts Gloster. It’s human nature to get nostalgic about anything from our past and actually owning an item from our childhood is a comforting way of clinging onto it. In our case this is railwayana or the equivalent for other means of transport.
I’ve been a keen collector for the last 20-30 years but I’m always mindful that whatever items I purchase will either get sold in my old age or passed onto my children for whom all but a few items are a bit meaningless but that doesn’t stop them asking me how much items are worth!
My own belief is that specialist items such as makers plates and nameplates will not hold the values they have or have had simply because future buyers won’t remember the locomotives they came from. On the other hand, good condition enamel signs such as station names will always hold a steady value because they are ‘cool’ interior design features and look good on any interior wall especially if the sign relates to the location. The same relates to vintage posters which were bought for next to nothing not so many years ago and now sell for hundreds or thousands according to rarity, artwork and artist.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Diesel workplates seem to be attracting premium prices these days compared to steam ones. However,the price of steam shedplates seems very buoyant. Likewise steam age Totems seem to be holding their value well.

 

[Trainlog]

Interesting thoughts Gloster. It’s human nature to get nostalgic about anything from our past and actually owning an item from our childhood is a comforting way of clinging onto it. In our case this is railwayana or the equivalent for other means of transport.
I’ve been a keen collector for the last 20-30 years but I’m always mindful that whatever items I purchase will either get sold in my old age or passed onto my children for whom all but a few items are a bit meaningless but that doesn’t stop them asking me how much items are worth!
My own belief is that specialist items such as makers plates and nameplates will not hold the values they have or have had simply because future buyers won’t remember the locomotives they came from. On the other hand, good condition enamel signs such as station names will always hold a steady value because they are ‘cool’ interior design features and look good on any interior wall especially if the sign relates to the location. The same relates to vintage posters which were bought for next to nothing not so many years ago and now sell for hundreds or thousands according to rarity, artwork and artist.

I mean it depends how much steam will capture the next generation of collectors as it will go from something that was remembered by enthusiasts to historical artifacts so it might go up in value in that regard. I hope that loco plates wont cost as much as a Gauge 1 loco or a new car in the future as they might do now for some of them but i am optimistic that they will hold some value and not collapse in the way many might anticipate.

As for your point on interior design yes i agree they will definitely hold in value if looked after well and any restoration doesn't ruin the artifact. Im not to sure on any post 70s posters besides the intercity ones being of much value but who honestly knows, but any of the steam or early Diesel era ones will probably only go up in value as time passes as they are brilliant pieces of art!