WMR Fare Evasion

[ofc48121]

Hi all. I got pulled in Birmingham for short fare evasion. Shamefully, I have been doing this for a while - purely for the financial benefit during a difficult time. I can only see back 12 months on my app. I haven’t received any correspondence yet - a lot of people seem to receive emails but I wasn’t asked for an email, unless they retrieve through my Trainline account? Hoping I can pay a settlement figure (the maximum if it means avoiding court). Has anyone ever not been offered a settlement and had to go through court proceedings? So regretful.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Hi all. I got pulled at Birmingham Snow Hill for short fare evasion. Shamefully, I have been doing this for a long time - purely for the financial benefit. I can only see back 12 months on my app but it spans further than this. I haven’t received any correspondence yet - a lot of people seem to receive emails but I wasn’t asked for an email, unless they retrieve through my Trainline account? Hoping this will be a settlement figure (the maximum if it means avoiding court). Has anyone ever not been offered a settlement and had to go through court proceedings? So worried and very regretful.

The only way this will reach a court room is if you don't engage with the process OR there is also something deliberately fraudulent such as modifying tickets/Railcards. WMT almost always prefer an out of court settlement. We've seen cases over £10k on here that have been settled out of court.

You will receive an email within a few weeks, though can be longer, this will be to the email on your Trainline account if you weren't asked for one. Presumably it was after a ticket scan and you were issued with an MG11 report. Can you clarify this?

Roughly how long have you been doing this? Work out the Anytime single fare for each journey you have short fared (2x single for a return) and add around £150 and that should give you a rough estimate to what you may be asked to pay.

Also, stop doing it now. You are on their radar, getting caught again will increase you odds of going to court.

 

[ofc48121]

The only way this will reach a court room is if you don't engage with the process OR there is also something deliberately fraudulent such as modifying tickets/Railcards. WMT almost always prefer an out of court settlement. We've seen cases over £10k on here that have been settled out of court.

You will receive an email within a few weeks, though can be longer, this will be to the email on your Trainline account if you weren't asked for one. Presumably it was after a ticket scan and you were issued with an MG11 report. Can you clarify this?

Roughly how long have you been doing this? Work out the Anytime single fare for each journey you have short fared (2x single for a return) and add around £150 and that should give you a rough estimate to what you may be asked to pay.

Also, stop doing it now. You are on their radar, getting caught again will increase you odds of going to court.

I know. Very foolish and safe to say I have learnt from my mistake - I am purchasing the correct tickets now. Yes I was given a slip of paper which allowed one hour of return travel so assuming this is the MG11 you are referring to. At this point, I do not care the sum of a fine providing it means avoiding any legal action. The difference in return fare looks to be about £3.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The difference in return fare looks to be about £3.

Do we know how far back they look?

Unlikely you'll be asked to just pay the fare difference. What was the typical (full) journey that you've been making, but not having bought ticket(s) valid for the entire journey(s)? If you've bought these tickets online, you'll have likely left an electronic footprint that'll prove rather expensive to resolve. Good luck in sorting!

 

[ofc48121]

The full journey is £6.60 but the journey I have been paying is £3.70. I can pay any fine just eager to avoid further legal proceedings.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

The full journey is £6.60 but the journey I have been paying is £3.70. I can pay any fine just eager to avoid further legal proceedings.

If this is a return from Old Hill to Snow Hill, be aware they will charge you for each journey. So £5 each way, £10 per day.

As you can see, habitual fare evasion will soon add up, especially if this is a daily commute over multiple years!

 

[ofc48121]

It’s not a daily commute, at most 3x a week but often 2. The journey is to Snow Hill. Do you think this warrants legal action then?

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s not a daily commute, at most 3x a week but often 2. The journey is Olton - Snow Hill. Do you know/ have saw how far back they go in other examples of this? And do you think this warrants legal action then?

They can go back six years in practice.

 

[Haywain]

And do you think this warrants legal action then?

You have been caught committing a criminal offence. As WMR want to recover the lost fares and frighten you out of repeating this behaviour they will most likely settle out of court. But they will prosecute if you don’t cooperate.

 

[ofc48121]

You have been caught committing a criminal offence. As WMR want to recover the lost fares and frighten you out of repeating this behaviour they will most likely settle out of court. But they will prosecute if you don’t cooperate.

I will be cooperating with them fully and willing to pay whatever figure they send my way to avoid any further detriment.

 

[swt_passenger]

I will be cooperating with them fully and willing to pay whatever fine they send my way to avoid any further detriment.

You don’t really want to ‘pay whatever fine’, you do want an ‘out of court settlement’.

Paying fares due is not a fine, although you might feel like it is.

 

[ofc48121]

You don’t really want to ‘pay whatever fine’, you do want an ‘out of court settlement’.

Paying fares due is not a fine, although you might feel like it is.

No I agree, poor wording. But I do want an out of court settlement.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It’s not a daily commute, at most 3x a week but often 2. The journey is Olton - Snow Hill.

That's currently £4.40 for an Anytime Day Single (one way journey). Would have been £4.20 for much of last year. You may possibly get asked to pay 2 x singles for a day return trip, rather than the Anytime Day Return fare.

 

[ofc48121]

Thanks everyone. I’ll revert when I’ve received a communication from them.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The decision on whether to offer an out of court settlement is down to the train company. From what you've told us it sounds as though you've been comitting fare evasion on an industrial scale and many people would wonder how serious a case has to be to end up in court, if a case like this ends up being settled out of court.

That said, most train companies will offer an out of court settlement as long as you co-operate with them, and haven't come to their attention before. When teh letter from the train company comes I suggest you upload a redacted copy of it in this thread along with you draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[ofc48121]

Welcome to the forum!

The decision on whether to offer an out of court settlement is down to the train company. From what you've told us it sounds as though you've been comitting fare evasion on an industrial scale and many people would wonder how serious a case has to be to end up in court, if a case like this ends up being settled out of court.

That said, most train companies will offer an out of court settlement as long as you co-operate with them, and haven't come to their attention before. When teh letter from the train company comes I suggest you upload a redacted copy of it in this thread along with you draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thanks Hadders. Are there many instances where you’ve saw the train company (WMR in my case) decline the offer to settle? I have done it a lot to be honest but not 100% consistent as there was a year or so where I didn’t even travel via train.

 

[Hadders]

My experience is that they normally settle out of court.

 

[ofc48121]

My experience is that they normally settle out of court.

Thanks. Do you find it’s almost always a case of them sending an open email/letter for you to explain yourself or do they ever just issue a fine within that first letter?

 

[Hadders]

They will write asking for an explanation forst.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thanks. Do you find it’s almost always a case of them sending an open email/letter for you to explain yourself or do they ever just issue a fine within that first letter?

Settlement out of court is not a fine, although it might seem like that. Essentially you'll be paying the train company a potentially big sum of money towards all the unpaid fare(s), and, on top, the train company's investigation and admin fees, so that you're then NOT taken to court (and very likely, from what you've told us, end up with a court fine and a court conviction against your name).

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks. Do you find it’s almost always a case of them sending an open email/letter for you to explain yourself or do they ever just issue a fine within that first letter?

when you talk here about a 'fine' I wonder if you are confusing this with the sum of money seen on warning posters at stations about Penalty Fares (£100 or £50 if paid promptly) - if that is the case that is not what will happen to you now. Such Penalty fares have to be issued on the spot - and more to the point they are not designed for cases of suspected deliberate evasion like short faring - which is why you should not expect that to happen to you know. You have no doubt been suspected of deliberate evasion and the outcome of that is an investigation that can go down 2 route - prosecution in court for fare evasion (if found guilty that results in a court fine (the punishment set by the court for the offence), costs etc and a criminal record) or an out of court settlement if they agree to that instead of prosecuting you.

The good news is that as explained above, if you follow advice on here it is very likely you can achieve an out of court settlement. You can see many other thread on the forum involving the same railway company as you so have a browse through them to see how things can play out.

The key to this is persuading the railway that you have learned your lesson, won't do this ever again, and understand why what you did was wrong, and the seriousness of it.

If there is something that you can do to show that you have changed your ways then that is something you can do now and mention in your favour (eg buy a season ticket / flexi season ticket) in due course, tho if such a ticket does not work in your favour financially then I don't think you need to buy one - but you do need to buy the correct tickets from now on of course.

Help here will allow you to resolve this in the 'least worst' way I think.

 

[ofc48121]

Settlement out of court is not a fine, although it might seem like that. Essentially you'll be paying the train company a potentially big sum of money towards all the unpaid fare(s), and, on top, the train company's investigation and admin fees, so that you're then NOT taken to court (and very likely, from what you've told us, end up with a court fine and a court conviction against your name).

Sorry, yes I know it’s not a ‘fine’. Unsure what your last bit means in brackets, are you insinuating you think in this case I’ll end up in court?

when you talk here about a 'fine' I wonder if you are confusing this with the sum of money seen on warning posters at stations about Penalty Fares (£100 or £50 if paid promptly) - if that is the case that is not what will happen to you now. Such Penalty fares have to be issued on the spot - and more to the point they are not designed for cases of suspected deliberate evasion like short faring - which is why you should not expect that to happen to you know. You have no doubt been suspected of deliberate evasion and the outcome of that is an investigation that can go down 2 route - prosecution in court for fare evasion (if found guilty that results in a court fine (the punishment set by the court for the offence), costs etc and a criminal record) or an out of court settlement if they agree to that instead of prosecuting you.

The good news is that as explained above, if you follow advice on here it is very likely you can achieve an out of court settlement. You can see many other thread on the forum involving the same railway company as you so have a browse through them to see how things can play out.

The key to this is persuading the railway that you have learned your lesson, won't do this ever again, and understand why what you did was wrong, and the seriousness of it.

If there is something that you can do to show that you have changed your ways then that is something you can do now and mention in your favour (eg buy a season ticket / flexi season ticket) in due course, tho if such a ticket does not work in your favour financially then I don't think you need to buy one - but you do need to buy the correct tickets from now on of course.

Help here will allow you to resolve this in the 'least worst' way I think.

when you talk here about a 'fine' I wonder if you are confusing this with the sum of money seen on warning posters at stations about Penalty Fares (£100 or £50 if paid promptly) - if that is the case that is not what will happen to you now. Such Penalty fares have to be issued on the spot - and more to the point they are not designed for cases of suspected deliberate evasion like short faring - which is why you should not expect that to happen to you know. You have no doubt been suspected of deliberate evasion and the outcome of that is an investigation that can go down 2 route - prosecution in court for fare evasion (if found guilty that results in a court fine (the punishment set by the court for the offence), costs etc and a criminal record) or an out of court settlement if they agree to that instead of prosecuting you.

The good news is that as explained above, if you follow advice on here it is very likely you can achieve an out of court settlement. You can see many other thread on the forum involving the same railway company as you so have a browse through them to see how things can play out.

The key to this is persuading the railway that you have learned your lesson, won't do this ever again, and understand why what you did was wrong, and the seriousness of it.

If there is something that you can do to show that you have changed your ways then that is something you can do now and mention in your favour (eg buy a season ticket / flexi season ticket) in due course, tho if such a ticket does not work in your favour financially then I don't think you need to buy one - but you do need to buy the correct tickets from now on of course.

Help here will allow you to resolve this in the 'least worst' way I think.

I’ve definitely learnt my lesson. I looked into the rail card but when plugging in my details, it doesn’t appear I’ll be saving at all. I have been on the train since and am purchasing the correct tickets with absolutely no second thoughts so definitely no danger of this happening a second time!

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry, yes I know it’s not a ‘fine’. Unsure what your last bit means in brackets, are you insinuating you think in this case I’ll end up in court?



I’ve definitely learnt my lesson. I looked into the rail card but when plugging in my details, it doesn’t appear I’ll be saving at all. I have been on the train since and am purchasing the correct tickets with absolutely no second thoughts so definitely no danger of this happening a second time!

Thanks - good that you have checked ref season tickets / railcards etc (different things of course)

Ref your 1st bit I think @Mcr Warrior is saying if it ended up in court that is what would happen, because a guilty verdict would be almost certainly guaranteed given what you have done - not that it will end up in court - but there is always a chance so you need to be aware of that risk, as is often said on this forum 'the railway company are within their rights to prosecute you'

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Sorry, yes I know it’s not a ‘fine’. Unsure what your last bit means in brackets, are you insinuating you think in this case I’ll end up in court?

I'm suggesting that you will very likely end up in court, but only if you don't engage with the process, and aren't able to successfully negotiate an "out of court" settlement. Settlement is still possible.

 

[ofc48121]

I'm suggesting that you will very likely end up in court, but only if you don't engage with the process, and aren't able to successfully negotiate an "out of court" settlement. Settlement is still possible.

I will be fully engaging with the process. Whatever figure they throw at me, even if I don’t think it’s 100% accurate, I will pay.

Thanks - good that you have checked ref season tickets / railcards etc (different things of course)

Ref your 1st bit I think @Mcr Warrior is saying if it ended up in court that is what would happen, because a guilty verdict would be almost certainly guaranteed given what you have done - not that it will end up in court - but there is always a chance so you need to be aware of that risk, as is often said on this forum 'the railway company are within their rights to prosecute you'

I see, thanks for clarifying. I’ll be engaging fully so can only hope I can reach an out of court settlement.

 

[John R]

Thanks. Do you find it’s almost always a case of them sending an open email/letter for you to explain yourself or do they ever just issue a fine within that first letter?

We do sometimes see initial letters that go straight to an offer of settlement (what you call a "fine" - but it isn't). I doubt they will do that though given the extent of your fare evasion.

 

[ofc48121]

Hi all. This is eating me up… I have felt absolutely awful since. Of course it goes without saying, this is totally self inflicted. I let my financial worries get the better of me. Would I be able to contact them first or do you not advise? My brain is going into overdrive thinking about being up in court and needing a solicitor/whether I should have already consulted one.

 

[Hadders]

I do not advise contacting the train company ahead of receiving their initial letter.

This is because you don’t know what they’re going to say in their letter and there is a risk of incriminating yourself more than you need to do so. Also, it’s possible that they might not be able to match up anything you do send them with your case.

I know it’s easy to say this, but try and put the matter to the back of your mind for now and get on with your life. Come back here when you get the letter and we can go from there.