WMR Reduced Class 172 Formations

[Ridercross]

After a couple of weeks of reduced formation trains on the Snow Hill lines. WMR have admitted they have a problem and are officially revising (reducing) formations until May:

Snow Hill Lines - Revised carriage formations - Spring 2025

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

This issue has been causing huge problems particularly in my experiences on the Stourbridge section in the morning peak with passengers being unable to board trains as they are shorter than the planned 4 or 5 carriages.

 

[MattSGB]

Until May, that's ridiculous. Losing a single carriage on a peak service means crush-loading. Going from 5 carriages down to 2 or 3 means that half the passengers are left behind.

 

[newtownmgr]

The major problem is the 196’s leading to the use of 172’s on the Hereford services. Obviously losing 6 sets to Chiltern and general poor reliability of the 196’s isn’t helping either. There are a few 172’s running around with engines isolated which doesn’t help. Hopefully things will approve when the suppliers get there act together.

 

[Halish Railway]

Does make you wonder how they’re going to resource the new Camp Hill line services. I wouldn’t be surprised if within a few years of opening it generated enough ridership to warrant four carriage trains.

 

[AJDesiro]

Does make you wonder how they’re going to resource the new Camp Hill line services. I wouldn’t be surprised if within a few years of opening it generated enough ridership to warrant four carriage trains.

There should be enough 196s, it's just that they're having issues getting spares at the minute AFAIK. Off-peak, 9 out of 14 196/1s are required, alongside 2 out of 6 196/0s. Leaving 9 units spare.

 

[trundlewagon]

Does make you wonder how they’re going to resource the new Camp Hill line services. I wouldn’t be surprised if within a few years of opening it generated enough ridership to warrant four carriage trains.

I think 2-car trains on the Camp Hill are going to be swamped from day 1...

 

[centraltrains]

Looks like it's going to get worse...

Snow Hill Lines - Amended timetable - Spring 2025

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

From Monday 31/03/25, we will be introducing temporary changes to the timetable on the Snow Hill route due to a shortage of available train carriages. Unfortunately, this means that some services on the route will be withdrawn from the timetable and some remaining services will operate with a reduced number of carriages.

From Monday 31/03/25, some trains will operate with a reduced and/or altered number of carriages, and the following services will be temporarily withdrawn from the timetable.

• 0700 Birmingham Snow Hill - Leamington Spa
• 0754 Leamington Spa - Snow Hill
• 0723 Worcester Foregate St – Birmingham New Street
• 1750 Birmingham New Street – Hereford
• 1950 Hereford – Birmingham New Street
• 2200 Birmingham New Street – Worcester Shrub Hill

Further timetable amendments will come into effect later in the spring, with details to be confirmed in due course.

How many trains are affected by this issue?
We currently have 39 “Class 172” trains in our fleet (24 x 2-car and 15 x 3-car). This issue is affecting 12 of the 2-car fleet and all 15 of the 3-car fleet.

Does anyone have details of what type of parts the supply chain issue is with?

Seen a lot of non-multi and multi-only stickers lately so guessing possibly cab related? Still seem to be 3-cars out even if effected.

 

[MattSGB]

Looks like it's going to get worse...

Snow Hill Lines - Amended timetable - Spring 2025

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Does anyone have details of what type of parts the supply chain issue is with?

Seen a lot of non-multi and multi-only stickers lately so guessing possibly cab related? Still seem to be 3-cars out even if effected.

I think you may be right about multiple working being prevented by the fault. Before this problem got severe, I had a couple of incidents where a five car would turn up at Snow Hill and then they had some kind of control problem (possibly with the door controls) which meant that they had to detach the rear unit before proceeding with the front section only. So maybe they are all functional but cannot work in multiples (or at least one end of each unit can't couple).

It's really bad now. Peak time services are often operated by a string of two car units.

The thing that doesn't make sense in the multiple unit theory is why they would reduce the timetable. Surely it would be better to go back to 6tph if they can't form multiple units.

 

[barbette165]

It’s not a simple thing to go back to the 6tph timetable. The 4tph timetable also included a recasting of the Chiltern timetable to provide an even 4 tph for Dorridge and Solihull. (Except for some hours when 1 Chiltern train is missing). Plus, there’s also the XC trains and freight to consider.

 

[MattSGB]

It’s not a simple thing to go back to the 6tph timetable. The 4tph timetable also included a recasting of the Chiltern timetable to provide an even 4 tph for Dorridge and Solihull. (Except for some hours when 1 Chiltern train is missing). Plus, there’s also the XC trains and freight to consider.

Sorry I know it isn't realistic, I was trying to make the point that increasing frequency makes more sense that cutting out services from the timetable.

 

[Class172]

Looks like it's going to get worse...

Snow Hill Lines - Amended timetable - Spring 2025

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Does anyone have details of what type of parts the supply chain issue is with?

Seen a lot of non-multi and multi-only stickers lately so guessing possibly cab related? Still seem to be 3-cars out even if effected.

Well that’s going to be particularly unpleasant for travellers as the 0723 and 1750 are busy peak time workings.

 

[MattSGB]

On their FAQ section, this snippet sheds light that this isn't a multiple unit issue as I suspected:

The entire Class 172 fleet is undergoing an overhaul programme which means new wheelsets, final drives and brake discs are being installed. This will address the underlying cause of the number of units currently out of traffic

It's still confusing though that they say that all 15 3 car units are affected, yet 3 car units are still in service. Unless defective braking is somehow damaging the couplers between units over time?

 

[Chris172]

On their FAQ section, this snippet sheds light that this isn't a multiple unit issue as I suspected:

It's still confusing though that they say that all 15 3 car units are affected, yet 3 car units are still in service. Unless defective braking is somehow damaging the couplers between units over time?

The original 3 and 2 cars are due and going through an overhaul - new bogies etc whilst the ex London Overground are done and the Chiltern ones aren't due yet

 

[liamf656]

I think a situation like this is where KYT on Realtimetrains would be useful!

 

[Liam L]

I think a situation like this is where KYT on Realtimetrains would be useful!

WMR provides information of short forms on their website under "problems reported" drop down.

 

[TH172341]

Wonder how much of this is a consequence of increased workings to cover Herefords etc. in recent years leading to overhauls being reached faster on the 172/2 and 172/3s? Can only guess all piled up at once combined with general industry supply chain issues leading to this and small niggles building up over time with reduced time sat as maintenance spare at Tyseley.

It's a shame not all Snow Hill line depots were 196 trained otherwise could have helped mitigate to a degree. Cognisant of course of past resourcing issues.

Can only think some clever diagramming with 196s or strategic coupling / uncoupling in the day of the remaining 172s to limit wear so they can be doubled in the peaks is the answer past May...there is a fair amount of fresh air during the middle of day but morning and evening a definite issue. Looks like will have the 172/1s with Chiltern interiors for a while yet!

 

[Pokelet]

They have run traction on the route previously that not all depots signed. There used to be a 170 +170 diagram and a 170+153 both confined to Worcester crews only.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The major problem is the 196’s leading to the use of 172’s on the Hereford services. Obviously losing 6 sets to Chiltern and general poor reliability of the 196’s isn’t helping either. There are a few 172’s running around with engines isolated which doesn’t help. Hopefully things will approve when the suppliers get there act together.

Which units have gone to Chiltern?

 

[Kite159]

Which units have gone to Chiltern?

007-012 of the 196s.

 

[ValleyLines142]

007-012 of the 196s.

Oooh!

 

[sjoh]

Do Chiltern currently really require all 6 of the 196s for east-west rail traction learning? How feasible would it be for them to loan 3 (or so) of them back to WMR until EWR starts?

 

[150219]

Do Chiltern currently really require all 6 of the 196s for east-west rail traction learning? How feasible would it be for them to loan 3 (or so) of them back to WMR until EWR starts?

Assuming that some of them are not stopped too. Not impossible, but unlikely I'd say.

 

[tfw756rider]

Transcript of relevant parts of:
BBC Midlands Today
Evening News: 31/03/2025

Also on the programme - 'Train troubles'

(Mary Rhodes narrating footage of 172 bogie/wheelset work being carried out inside Tyseley depot):

A reduction in services and overcrowding on some West Midlands Trains routes because of problems getting parts for carriages.

Introduction to 'Train Shortages' segment

(Mary presenting in the studio, with a photo of an end-gangwayed 172 in the background):

West Midlands Railway has apologised for a reduction in services and overcrowding problems on some of its routes due to a shortage of carriages.
The company says it's facing delays in getting parts it needs to keep all of its stock running.
So, from today, there's a new timetable which includes the loss of some peak-time routes to Leamington and Hereford.
Ben Sidwell reports.

'Train Shortages' segment

(Ben narrating footage of 172 bogie/wheelset work being carried out inside Tyseley depot):

They should be on the rails, but these carriages are currently sat waiting for repair, at West Midlands Railway depot in Tyseley in Birmingham.
It's led to overcrowding on trains, and now the axing of some peak-time services to and from Birmingham Snow Hill.

John Doughty (Engineering Director, West Midlands Railway) talking to camera inside Tyseley depot:

We're very sorry for the disruption that we're causing to our customers at the moment.
Our big problem that we've got is we've got supply shortages of critical parts for the train, but we are working very hard as soon as we can get those parts, to fit them to the trains.

(Ben talking to camera and narrating Tyseley depot and Birmingham Snow Hill railway station footage):

So just what is the problem?
Well just like a car, the wheels and the brake discs on these carriages wear out and when they do, they need to be replaced for safety.
Now this has happened to around two thirds of these carriages, and these carriages also come in sets, so in sets of 2s or 3s so you can't just take a single carriage out.
Add to that the problem with the supply chain and actually getting these parts, and that's why so many of these carriages aren't running at the moment.
The peak-time reduced timetable came into effect at Snow Hill station today, where most of the passengers we spoke to had experienced problems of overcrowding on trains.

172-using woman talking to camera on Colmore Row, Birmingham (Snow Hill station's street):

It impacts upon my day, trying to get to work, trying to get home, just convenience and also the comfort.
As well, you're paying extra each year, and the service just gets worse.

(172-using man talking to camera by the 9 Colmore Row office building, Birmingham):

When there's two carriages at Snow Hill you can just about get on, and then when (the train) gets to Moor Street... hardly anyone can get on, and it's like sardines.

(Ben narrating in-motion footage of end-gangwayed 172s, a 196 and another end-gangwayed 172):

The reduction in trains between Birmingham and Leamington Spa, Worcester and Hereford (is) due to continue until the summer, with further changes to the timetable expected in the coming weeks.
Ben Sidwell, BBC Midlands Today, Birmingham.

 

[MattSGB]

I was on a five-car this morning that had to decouple and recouple at Snow Hill to attempt to fix a "technical problem" (07:52 from Kidderminster). I didn't stick around to find out if it was successful or not. The two-car unit was one of the Chiltern units. There seems to be more going on than just break pad and wheel wear.

 

[TH172341]

They have run traction on the route previously that not all depots signed. There used to be a 170 +170 diagram and a 170+153 both confined to Worcester crews only.

Indeed, remember those workings well. Do hope something could be similarly achieved with the 196s which is what I hope the May changes achieve...had 172331 with a developing wheelflat today so wonder how long that will last now.

 

[newtownmgr]

Indeed, remember those workings well. Do hope something could be similarly achieved with the 196s which is what I hope the May changes achieve...had 172331 with a developing wheelflat today so wonder how long that will last now

It won’t happen. There are no diagram circuits that don’t involve Snow Hill crews at some point and they don’t sign 196’s.
Also there are still issues affecting 196’s which is why we have 172’s diagrammed on Herefords at present.
With the current diagrams on Shrewsbury’s/Herefords/Knucke services plus the upcoming Camp Hill services there is no spare capacity to put 196’s on Snow Hill work.

 

[Pokelet]

It won’t happen. There are no diagram circuits that don’t involve Snow Hill crews at some point and they don’t sign 196’s.
Also there are still issues affecting 196’s which is why we have 172’s diagrammed on Herefords at present.
With the current diagrams on Shrewsbury’s/Herefords/Knucke services plus the upcoming Camp Hill services there is no spare capacity to put 196’s on Snow Hill work.

That's a shame.

What are the issues with 196's? I don't do Birmingham commutes as much as I used to buy from experiencing a couple a few weeks ago the interiors have not faired well in my opinion and there were numerous rattles from lots of panels.

 

[newtownmgr]

That's a shame.

What are the issues with 196's? I don't do Birmingham commutes as much as I used to buy from experiencing a couple a few weeks ago the interiors have not faired well in my opinion and there were numerous rattles from lots of panels.

Many and varied issues.Reliability is poor to say the least.

 

[Pokelet]

Many and varied issues.Reliability is poor to say the least.

It's a shame, they have a striking exterior design and look like a capable and comfortable train. I know that there was a franchise commitment to new rolling stock, however it feels like a deep clean and refurb of the 170's might have been a better option? It would have also given WMT a full fleet of Turbostar based units. I always thought as a Passenger the 170's were ideally suited to the BHM-HFD route if a little slow off the mark?

 

[sjoh]

It's a shame, they have a striking exterior design and look like a capable and comfortable train. I know that there was a franchise commitment to new rolling stock, however it feels like a deep clean and refurb of the 170's might have been a better option? It would have also given WMT a full fleet of Turbostar based units. I always thought as a Passenger the 170's were ideally suited to the BHM-HFD route if a little slow off the mark?

170s probably not terrible on Herefords, but they're definitely a drag on the Shrewsburys and indeed everywhere else with lots of short spaced stops. They're just not designed for it. And keeping a fleet of 170s just to run to Hereford doesn't make a whole lot of sense.