Wrong way journey ticket purchase - rather than going to destination, I ended up getting coming from destination - Penalty Fare Issued - Pls advice.

[Muz11]

My journey was for A to B, however as an honest and genuine mistake - I purchased the ticket via my app, which my app suggested ‘buy your usual ticket’ (which I usually do) I clicked on it and purchased the ticket, however without noticing the ticket was for B to A destination 7am, rather than A to B at 7am.

This has never happened to me in the past, the app has always allowed me to buy the correct journey ticket - I have purchased the ticket each time via my app, without any issues.

I paid the correct fare as well.

I scanned my barcode ticket, the barriers opened and allowed me to enter to go to the platform, I then got onto the train, without any issues.

However, when I got to my destination my ticket did not scan - I called the person over at the station, and asked, as to why my ticket is not scanning, he asked to see my ticket, at this point he pointed out, I have the wrong journey ticket. He also said you paid the correct fare and it’s an honest mistake, and informed me that I need to call and explain and penalty fine would be cancelled.

However, he did not advise me correctly and now I will need to appeal.

Any advice will be appriciated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately this is a correctly issued Penalty Fare. No harm in appealing, but it's unlikely to succeed on that basis.

On the other hand it may be worth checking the correct posters are present at your origin. If they aren't, then a Penalty Fare would be wrongly charged and could be appealed on those grounds. Very often those posters are either missing or have incorrect wording - the law is very prescriptive about what is required.

The required wording can be found here:

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018

These Regulations make provision for the charging of penalty fares for the failure to produce, when required to do so, a ticket or other authority authorising a person to travel by train or to be present in a compulsory ticket area at a station.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Standard notice

1.—(1) A standard notice must contain—

(a)the penalty fares logo as shown in Part 3;

(b)the word “WARNING” in large, prominent text at the top of the notice;

(c)the wording “Please buy your ticket before you travel otherwise you may be charged a Penalty Fare”;

(d)the wording “A Penalty Fare is £20 or twice the full single fare applicable to your journey (whichever is greater)”;

(e)wording which indicates where information about the circumstances in which a person may be charged a penalty fare in relation to travel by, presence on or leaving a train is published or may be obtained; and

(f)the logo, and name if the logo does not contain the name, of each operator that charges penalty fares in relation to trains arriving at or departing from the area of the station to which the notice applies.

(2) The absence of a logo or name, as required by sub-paragraph (1)(f), on a notice only invalidates the notice in relation to the operator whose logo or name is missing.
Compulsory ticket area notice

2.—(1) A compulsory ticket area notice must contain—

(a)the penalty fares logo as shown in Part 3;

(b)the word “WARNING” in large, prominent text at the top of the notice;

(c)the wording—

(i)“You are about to enter a Compulsory Ticket Area”;

(ii)“You must have a platform ticket or valid travel ticket before passing this point”; and

(iii)“Otherwise you may be charged a Penalty Fare”;

(d)the wording “A Penalty Fare is a minimum of £20. If you intend to travel, a Penalty Fare is £20 or twice the full single fare applicable to your journey (whichever is greater)”;

(e)wording which indicates where information about the circumstances in which a person may be charged a penalty fare for being in or leaving a compulsory ticket area is published or may be obtained; and

(f)the logo, and name if the logo does not contain the name, of each operator that charges penalty fares in relation to trains arriving at or departing from the compulsory ticket area.

(2) The absence of a logo or name, as required by sub-paragraph (1)(f), on a notice only invalidates the notice in relation to the operator whose logo or name is missing.

Also:

Display of Notices

8.—(1) The requirements for the display of notices are as follows.

(2) Where any entrance onto a platform at the station is not the entrance to, or situated within, a compulsory ticket area, a notice complying with the requirements of paragraph 1 of Part 1 of Schedule 1 (“a standard notice”) must be displayed at that entrance.

(3) If the station has one or more compulsory ticket areas, a notice complying with the requirements of paragraph 2 of Part 1 of Schedule 1 (“a compulsory ticket area notice”) must be displayed at each entrance into a compulsory ticket area.

(4) Standard notices and compulsory ticket area notices must also be displayed at sufficient locations around the station so that at least one notice is readily visible to passengers prior to boarding a train at the station, including passengers changing from one train to another train.

 

[Muz11]

Unfortunately this is a correctly issued Penalty Fare. No harm in appealing, but it's unlikely to succeed on that basis.

On the other hand it may be worth checking the correct posters are present at your origin. If they aren't, then a Penalty Fare would be wrongly charged and could be appealed on those grounds. Very often those posters are either missing or have incorrect wording - the law is very prescriptive about what is required.

The required wording can be found here:

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018

These Regulations make provision for the charging of penalty fares for the failure to produce, when required to do so, a ticket or other authority authorising a person to travel by train or to be present in a compulsory ticket area at a station.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Also:

thank you for your response much appreciated - when you say correct poster what do you mean ? do you mean at the destination I was issued fine?

 

[Bletchleyite]

thank you for your response much appreciated - when you say correct poster what do you mean ? do you mean at the destination I was issued fine?

Between your entry to the station at the origin of your journey and the train door, a correct poster per the laws I quoted above must exist such that you would see it on the way to the train.

If it doesn't you could appeal on those grounds, so you may want to check.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Muz11. Welcome to the forum. Where did you start on the problem journey in question? Somewhere in Greater Manchester presumably?

 

[Muz11]

@Muz11. Welcome to the forum. Where did you start on the problem journey in question? Somewhere in Greater Manchester presumably?

Yes

Between your entry to the station at the origin of your journey and the train door, a correct poster per the laws I quoted above must exist such that you would see it on the way to the train.

If it doesn't you could appeal on those grounds, so you may want to check.

thanks will have to check at the both stations unfortunately it will be on Monday now however my local station i will go down and check sooner

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where did you start on the problem journey in question? Somewhere in Greater Manchester presumably?

Yes

Thanks. That narrows things down. Which one?

 

[Muz11]

Thanks. That narrows things down. Which one?

I have sent in an appeal (for both station) in question due to the fact many regulation of schedule 1 was not available, thanks to Bletchleyite who pointed out regulation, and I checked some of the points and these were not visually there, including the person who issued the ticket never identified himself etc.
I don't mind sending the location however as I have submitted the appeal I don't want this being hindered etc - If I know how to send you the station privately I can do that, more than happy - I am new to this forum, so don't know how to, or if I am allowed - apologies if it sounds rude, or correct me if I am wrong as well.
Any advice is welcomed.

​

 

[30907]

I appreciate that English is not your first language, but what specific reasons did you give in your appeal?

And please let us know how you get on. - in particular, if the penalty is cancelled because of the wrong wording on the poster, as this is universally the case.