XC Delay Repay no 15-29 minute payment

[trainophile]

Isn’t it an industry standard that delay repay starts at 15 minutes these days? It appears XC only pays for 30 minutes and over, unless the information I’m looking at is out of date?

 

[hexagon789]

Isn’t it an industry standard that delay repay starts at 15 minutes these days? It appears XC only pays for 30 minutes and over, unless the information I’m looking at is out of date?

30 is the minimum threshold I believe, paying for 15 mins is 'voluntary'.

 

[trainophile]

 

[Haywain]

30 is the minimum threshold I believe, paying for 15 mins is 'voluntary'.

The industry standard, set out in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, is 60 minutes. What TOCs offer tends to vary according to when their franchise was renewed but most offer at least 30 minutes.

 

[hexagon789]

The industry standard, set out in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, is 60 minutes. What TOCs offer tends to vary according to when their franchise was renewed but most offer at least 30 minutes.

Ouch, 60. Wow, didn't realise it was as low as that.

Is that why Eurostar is only 60 mins or do they follow a European standard?

 

[superalbs]

Ouch, 60. Wow, didn't realise it was as low as that.

Is that why Eurostar is only 60 mins or do they follow a European standard?

The NRCOT standard equals the European Rail Passenger Rights standard, I believe.

Both apply to UK operators anyway, but Eurostar only follows the European standard.

 

[trainophile]

We’re in a quandary now. We’re on the Aberdeen to Penzance (yep, all the way) and currently running 40 minutes late due to a blockage at Darlington.

Obviously this renders my original query irrelevant but we’re now wondering whether to bail at New Street and make our way back home to Hereford as our Penzance hotel check-in officially closes at 22:00, although possibly they could get someone to wait for us or leave a key somewhere.

Our other concern is in case XC decide to terminate early, leaving us stranded at Plymouth or somewhere without accommodation or a means of getting home.

If we did bail at Birmingham what would be our refund rights?

 

[transportphoto]

If we did bail at Birmingham what would be our refund rights?

So long as you abandon your journey and return to your origin, you’d be entitled to full refund as per NRCoT paragraph 30.1.

Sorry, my phone won’t let me quote it at the mo - link: https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

 

[trainophile]

So long as you abandon your journey and return to your origin, you’d be entitled to full refund as per NRCoT.

Well our origin today was Aberdeen of course but we have no intention of returning there! We only went there so we could do the entire journey.

Anyway there’s no possibility of getting back to Aberdeen tonight even if we thought it was a good idea!

 

[transportphoto]

Well our origin today was Aberdeen of course but we have no intention of returning there! We only went there so we could do the entire journey.

Anyway there’s no possibility of getting back to Aberdeen tonight even if we thought it was a good idea!

The requirement to return to origin is a fairly recent addition to the Conditions of Carriage. Sorry!

 

[richardderby]

showing a six minute late (2137) arrival on realtraintimes, there is quite a bit of slack, including 15 mins recovery at Bristol TM

Realtime Trains | 1V60 0820 Aberdeen to Penzance | 13/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1V60 0820 departure from Aberdeen to Penzance on 13/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[trainophile]

showing a six minute late (2137) arrival on realtraintimes, there is quite a bit of slack, including 15 mins recovery at Bristol TM

Realtime Trains | 1V60 0820 Aberdeen to Penzance | 13/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1V60 0820 departure from Aberdeen to Penzance on 13/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The guard seems to think we may end up only 15 minutes or so late so we’ll just have to hope for the best.

The requirement to return to origin is a fairly recent addition to the Conditions of Carriage. Sorry!

Seems a bit illogical given the variety of people’s travel arrangements.

 

[Watershed]

The DfT began moving towards a 15-minute Delay Repay threshold for all of the operators under their control some years back, introducing this as contracts were extended or new franchises won.

Unfortunately they didn't get through all of the TOCs before Covid hit, which led them to put this 'project' on a seemingly indefinite hold (likely in an attempt at minimising costs). CrossCountry and LNER remain the two 30-minute threshold outliers amongst DfT-controlled operators, but they are by no means the only operators with a threshold above 15 mins.

• ScotRail, Hull Trains, Lumo and Caledonian Sleeper all offer 30-minute threshold Delay Repay.
• London Overground and the Elizabeth line offer 100% of the single fare as a 'service delay refund' for 30+ minute delays, but only if the journey is entirely within the TfL PAYG area. Otherwise they only pay the NRCoT minimum - 50% of a single or 25% of a return for a 60+ min delay.
• Merseyrail pay 100% of a single or 50% of a return/day ticket for journeys entirely on their services. For journeys also involving other operators, their policy is to act in seemingly deliberate breach of the NRCoT minimum by only paying 20% of the cost of the ticket, regardless of the length of delay, as discussed in this thread. They are a law unto themselves...
• Grand Central are quite bad, paying only the NRCoT minimum for a 60-119 min delay, thereafter increasing to 75%/37.5% for 120-179 mins and 100%/50% for 180+ mins. So even if 4 or 5 hours late (a not infrequent occurrence given their abysmal ticket acceptance) you still wouldn't get back the full cost of a return!
• Eurostar are probably the stingiest of them all, paying only the PRO minimum of 25% of the single fare for a 60-119 min delay and 50% for 120+ mins. This is half of the NRCoT minimum, but they aren't subject to this as they operate under their own, separate conditions of carriage. They offer slightly more than the above percentages if you opt for a voucher but it's still very stingy.

By contrast, Heathrow Express gets a gold star for offering what is arguably the most generous delay compensation policy - 50% for 15-29 min delays and 100% for 30+ mins. It's ambiguous whether this also applies at the same rates to return tickets, and it only applies to the "Heathrow Express portion" of a through National Rail ticket beyond Paddington, but it's still twice or four times as generous as Delay Repay!

If we did bail at Birmingham what would be our refund rights?

Although the NRCoT have been amended to now purportedly require you to return to your origin for a full refund, clearly in this case that is infeasible and unrealistic. I would have thought you still have a strong case for a full refund even if you do not return to your origin, on the basis that the clause is unenforceable in the circumstances.

If the anticipated delay were more than 60 minutes, the PRO (which is where the NRCoT right originated) would provide for a refund:

for the part or parts already made if the journey is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger’s original travel plan

...which seems a much more reasonable test, to me.

All this being said, it seems somewhat unwise (to say the least) to book a hotel where the last check-in is at 10pm, giving only a small amount of leeway from your arrival on the longest-distance train in Britain, which is frequently disrupted.

 

[trainophile]

All the other hotels with availability required check-in by about 20:00. The Premier Inn wanted £191 which is ridiculous given we’d be there less than 12 hours. I’ve spoken to our booked place and they said to ring them later when we know what’s happening.

However after further delays we’re now told the chances are we’ll be terminating at Plymouth, and can get an onward GWR to Penzance. Looking at timings we might arrive just after 23:00, or if that one is cancelled we’ll be completely stuffed. Pity we weren’t told about the possible short finish before we’d left New Street .

Not an ideal outcome for what should have been an adventure for my husband’s 78th birthday.

 

[Watershed]

All the other hotels with availability required check-in by about 20:00. The Premier Inn wanted £191 which is ridiculous given we’d be there less than 12 hours. I’ve spoken to our booked place and they said to ring them later when we know what’s happening.

Appreciate that - just that it seems a risky decision. I've often been in this kind of dilemma before when booking accommodation, and have once nearly been unable to enter my accommodation. I'll now only book somewhere if I can be sure I'll be able to check in without issue. It's certainly put me off independent hotels or apartments quite a bit, as you always have that hassle or risk if you are late.

However after further delays we’re now told the chances are we’ll be terminating at Plymouth, and can get an onward GWR to Penzance. Looking at timings we might arrive just after 23:00, or if that one is cancelled we’ll be completely stuffed. Pity we weren’t told about the possible short finish before we’d left New Street .

Not an ideal outcome for what should have been an adventure for my husband’s 78th birthday.

That's very unfortunate. GWR and XC are both jointly liable to arrange onward transport if you do miss the last train of the day; in the unlikely event they refused to help you, ideally get this in writing and then make your own arrangements, claiming back the cost afterwards.

Remember to keep your tickets (whether PDF or paper) to claim Delay Repay.

 

[trainophile]

All is well. We’re now on a GWR from Plymouth, been told on the XC to claim a full refund, and the hotel have text me a code for the key safe box and instructions. So panic over thank goodness, all the better as it turned out to be a free journey!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

All is well. We’re now on a GWR from Plymouth, been told on the XC to claim a full refund, and the hotel have text me a code for the key safe box and instructions. So panic over thank goodness, all the better as it turned out to be a free journey!

Be very careful with that. There's a difference between claiming 'Delay Repay' (assuming that's what's happened) and a 'Refund' (as discussed upthread).

Delay Repay will be determined by actual arrival time in Penzance compared with original expected arrival time. Claim from XC as the TOC causing the initial delay.

 

[trainophile]

Be very careful with that. There's a difference between claiming 'Delay Repay' (assuming that's what's happened) and a 'Refund' (as discussed upthread).

Delay Repay will be determined by actual arrival time in Penzance compared with original expected arrival time. Claim from XC as the TOC causing the initial delay.

Yes, thanks for the warning. When I was asking about a refund it was for if we’d abandoned the journey at Birmingham. We’ll claim DR from XC for the late arrival.