Striking during olympics

[YorkshireBear]

This is going to be controversial... I think they are a disgrace.
Striking normally is fine by me they have the right to, but by taking action during the olympics they are basically trying to blackmail the TOCs and in some cases the government. Bob crow etc may aswell walk into stagecoach head office with a shotgun and go give us money.
One of the most vital and challenging months in the railways recent history and the unions decide striking is a good idea.

I know most of you will disagree and my opinion is swayed by the fact that my girlfriend is on the last train from waterloo to hampton during the olympics. Which if it is cancelled for this reason my opinion could get even worse...

I am on placement and some nights i stay back 2 hours and work through lunch hour, because a client wants drainage details a day early, i dont complain, i dont get any more money. This happens regularly, sometimes for a short period things like this happen. its 2 and a bit weeks im sure they can cope...

 

[notadriver]

South West Trains are working to rule as far as I know. They aren't striking.

 

[YorkshireBear]

South West Trains are working to rule as far as I know. They aren't striking.

might have misread that bit then

 

[wigwamman]

might have misread that bit then

Disagree,
If its ok for coca cola, mcdonalds,mastercard etc to make millions out of a corporate event then I think its only fair for the workers who help provide services in and around the event to be paid extra as well.
We live in a society now where individualism has been encouraged and the pursuit of greed,this is the way thatcher and the capatilists wanted it in the 80s,why are capatilists now complaining when the working person holds them to ranson,they have been holding us to ransom for years.

 

[blacknight]

If you read article on EMT website re driver strike action, ASLEF members are rejecting more money in weekly wage packet via reduction in pension contributions.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Disagree,
If its ok for coca cola, mcdonalds,mastercard etc to make millions out of a corporate event then I think its only fair for the workers who help provide services in and around the event to be paid extra as well.
We live in a society now where individualism has been encouraged and the pursuit of greed,this is the way thatcher and the capatilists wanted it in the 80s,why are capatilists now complaining when the working person holds them to ranson,they have been holding us to ransom for years.

I dont agree with that either though, but this is a rail forum so i left my general ranting about the olympics out of it :P
You make a very good point and i agree whole heartedly, i hate macdonalds and the fact they are the only food supplier allowed to sell portions of chips on their own.

 

[table38]

If its ok for coca cola, mcdonalds,mastercard etc to make millions out of a corporate event then I think its only fair for the workers who help provide services in and around the event to be paid extra as well.

The obvious flaw in your argument is that "coca cola, mcdonalds,mastercard etc" are actually contributing millions in sponsorship in order to pay for the Olympics and reduce the tax burden for the general public. *

It is worth noting that there are also up to 70,000 volunteers giving their time for free.

One important "legacy" for the Olympics is to showcase this country in an attempt to bring in more business, tourism and investment.

I can't see that happening if we come across as a complete basket case of self-interest and militancy.

* I'm sure they are getting a lot of free publicity and sales out of it as well, but lets face it, if there was no incentive, they wouldn't do the sponsorship in the first place.

 

[blacknight]

I for one will not have any organisation telling me how many butties can be in my pack up. What if TOC's went down same path there would be widescale protests I am sure.
Can words McDonalds & chips be linked togetherdon't they sell friespersonally I would not put them in same class as chips.

 

[Oswyntail]

I for one will not have any organisation telling me how many butties can be in my pack up. What if TOC's went down same path there would be widescale protests I am sure.
Can words McDonalds & chips be linked togetherdon't they sell friespersonally I would not put them in same class as chips.

Thanks for the smoke screen.
I do think that it is a shame that so many workers organisations are manufacturing grievances to get more money out of employers. Professionalism used to mean that when there was a special reason for hard work, you just got down and did it.
Besides, has striking as a tool of industrial relations ever worked?

 

[wigwamman]

The obvious flaw in your argument is that "coca cola, mcdonalds,mastercard etc" are actually contributing millions in sponsorship in order to pay for the Olympics and reduce the tax burden for the general public. *

It is worth noting that there are also up to 70,000 volunteers giving their time for free.

One important "legacy" for the Olympics is to showcase this country in an attempt to bring in more business, tourism and investment.

I can't see that happening if we come across as a complete basket case of self-interest and militancy.

* I'm sure they are getting a lot of free publicity and sales out of it as well, but lets face it, if there was no incentive, they wouldn't do the sponsorship in the first place.

These companies will turn over a massive profit out of their olympic "sposorship".
If people want to volunteer that's fine,but if people also want to withdraw their labour as a result of getting nothing extra then that's their right in a free society.

 

[Darandio]

Tbut if people also want to withdraw their labour as a result of getting nothing extra then that's their right in a free society.

But this has nothing to do with getting anything "extra" during the Olympics.

 

[a22book]

It Just goes to show how out of touch people who work for TOC's are with the rest of society. Many people are taking unpaid leave to help out at the olympics and travel and accomodation costs can ammount to hundreds of pounds. By striking you are only affecting these people the big corporations don't care. Its a disgrace.

 

[table38]

If people want to volunteer that's fine,but if people also want to withdraw their labour as a result of getting nothing extra then that's their right in a free society.

I agree (even though some professions can't strike by law), but look at the PCS strike - only 20 per cent bothered to vote, of whom only 57 per cent supported a strike, so that's barely 10% in favour.

This means that they have played into the hands of those in government who would wish to highlight the self-interest and make the law for strike ballots even more stringent - maybe even including more "essential" workers in the "no-strike" net.

It's also a piece of cake for the usual suspects in the media to make a case about the opportunistic greed of the unions by using headlines such as "holding the country to ransom".

 

[YorkshireBear]

But this has nothing to do with getting anything "extra" during the Olympics.

Exactly, the EMT one is about something unrelated but using the olympics to try and force a deal.

 

[jopsuk]

When should strikes happen? between 3am and 3:15am on Sunday mornings, so as to invonveniance as few people as possible?

 

[table38]

When should strikes happen? between 3am and 3:15am on Sunday mornings, so as to invonveniance as few people as possible?

I take your point, but why strike before the Olympics and inconvenience a lot of ordinary people, many of them not even UK residents, who can't influence whatever grievance the union may have?

As I've already said, to those people just trying to get on with their daily lives, especially those who need to get to work because if they don't, they won't get paid, it just smacks of self-interest and opportunism, and I'm sure that is how it will be portrayed by some of the media.

 

[wigwamman]

It Just goes to show how out of touch people who work for TOC's are with the rest of society. Many people are taking unpaid leave to help out at the olympics and travel and accomodation costs can ammount to hundreds of pounds. By striking you are only affecting these people the big corporations don't care. Its a disgrace.

Rather than people who work for TOC's being out of touch,I think they are very much in touch,the olympics is now nothing more than a advertising oppurtunity for corporate enterprise,the corporations will make millions,the athletes rather than the amatuers that used to take part will make millions (the top ones) and the treasury will pocket a healthy return as well.
As I said before if folk want to offer their goodwill free of charge then good luck to them,but people who work for TOC's mostly are in unions,this means that they are part of a organised labour force,their unions are trying to get them the best possible deal and yes it is oppurtunism but if all these rich corporations, athletes and government are using the olympics as a oppurtunity to make a few bob then its only right organised labour seeks to line their own pocket as well.

 

[Wolfie]

I agree (even though some professions can't strike by law), but look at the PCS strike - only 20 per cent bothered to vote, of whom only 57 per cent supported a strike, so that's barely 10% in favour.

This means that they have played into the hands of those in government who would wish to highlight the self-interest and make the law for strike ballots even more stringent - maybe even including more "essential" workers in the "no-strike" net.

It's also a piece of cake for the usual suspects in the media to make a case about the opportunistic greed of the unions by using headlines such as "holding the country to ransom".

my bold

What no strike net? My brother in law is in the Met and the Police Federation are absolutely adamant that after the latest batch of police changes they will pursue the right to strike all the way......

There are lots of other things being talked about as well, such as ceasing to take on voluntary additional roles - it will be interesting if all of the fire-arms trained officers hand in their licenses for example.....

 

[table38]

It would be interesting to discover Ed Milliband's opinion re the "Olympic strikes" *

I suspect he can't condemn them and risk offending the paymasters who fund the Labour party, yet he doesn't seem to be actively supporting them either... call me a cynic, but could this be because the strikes are generally percieved as unpopular?

* although it is possible he doesn't post on here

 

[asylumxl]

It would be interesting to discover Ed Milliband's opinion re the "Olympic strikes" *

I suspect he can't condemn them and risk offending the paymasters who fund the Labour party, yet he doesn't seem to be actively supporting them either... call me a cynic, but could this be because the strikes are generally percieved as unpopular?

* although it is possible he doesn't post on here

I'm really failing to see what party politics has to do with issues between an employer and it's employees...

 

[table38]

What no strike net? My brother in law is in the Met and the Police Federation are absolutely adamant that after the latest batch of police changes they will pursue the right to strike all the way......

See the Police Acts of 1919 and 1996... of course, who will arrest them for going on strike is another question

 

[whhistle]

Disagree,
If its ok for coca cola, mcdonalds,mastercard etc to make millions out of a corporate event then I think its only fair for the workers who help provide services in and around the event to be paid extra as well.

While I agree to an extent, Coca Cola, McDonalds and the like also paid upwards of £100 million to sponsor the event. Without them it wouldn't happen at all. However I draw the line at banning people wearing Pepsi t-shirts from events.

At work if something goes wrong and I work harder than usual, I don't get paid any bonus. Why should I? It's my job to try and give a good impression of the company I work for. I want to support the company I work for, so when I talk to my friends about my career then they perhaps get a little jealous I work for what the public see as a respectable, global brand.
I don't see how threatening to go on strike at (what appears to be) everything is a rewarding career. No wonder so many drivers are miserable

The problem is people thinking they are owed something by the company they work for. Drivers (generally speaking) seem to think they are untouchable, therefore they can do what they like. This is the impression they give me from all the news I hear about them. Striking during the Olympics isn't going to help me change my view.
What's more I feel for those drivers who are not even involved as public opinion of them will go down too.

I would also expect there will be massive changes in the future to train drivers from pubic pressure, whether it be mass sackings or what I don't know. If I were a driver I'd keep my head down and do the job. After all, it's very well paid for what it actually involves and if you don't like it, leave. Surely?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

See the Police Acts of 1919 and 1996... of course, who will arrest them for going on strike is another question

He said pursue the right to strike, as the Fed have been doing. Not going on strike (although that appears to be the ultimate aim).

 

[table38]

I'm really failing to see what party politics has to do with issues between an employer and it's employees...

Could it be that the unions calling the strikes bankroll the Labour party?

Can you imagine the uproar if Tory party donors used their financial influence to get special treatment... oh wait, I think they already do

 

[Oswyntail]

... if all these rich corporations, athletes and government are using the olympics as a oppurtunity to make a few bob then its only right organised labour seeks to line their own pocket as well.

That is utter balderdash.Apart from the fact that the Olympics are part of the athletes' "job" so to describe what they are doing as an "oppurtunity to make a few bob" is somewhat offensive, I suspect that neither the "rich corporations" nor any Government will see much directly from the games, but rather from indirect aspects such as goodwill and increased activity. But look at that crass statement you made for what it is, an expression of envy, greed and selfishness. "I want a share of that" - of what? TOC workers are not having a share of the sponsorship pot, or government revenue (except indirectly), or athletes' prize funds. Just the income their employers can generate. And where does that come from? Not from the Olympics.
Sorry, but this sort of action by "organised labour" brings the whole union movement into the very worst of lights.

 

[Rugd1022]

....Besides, has striking as a tool of industrial relations ever worked?...

Yes - way back in the early '70s Ted Heath capitulated to the miners and they got what they wanted.

As an ASLEF member myself I do understand how and why these things often come to a head, but we're not all as militant as some folk (mainly the press) would have us believe. In many instances though, things do get to the point where the threat of a strike is the only way to get beligerent and stubborn management back to negotiatingthe table, and from personal experience I know this can happen when said management go back on lawful agreements of long standing and simply refuse to back down - hence the threat of striking as a last resort.

At the first sign of trouble we usually only ever see the striking workers being interviewed on the TV news, while the management hide behind bland corporate statements and rarely, if ever, show their faces.

Mild rant over, time for a cuppa!

PS : as for the boy Miliband, he's never around when the trouble starts is he? Even when he does show his boat race he simply profers a meaningless soundbite which knows he'll never have to act on or be accountable for. Utterley uselss!

 

[Wolfie]

See the Police Acts of 1919 and 1996... of course, who will arrest them for going on strike is another question

Absolutely correct - see also Human Rights Act 2000.

The plan is to take it right through the UK courts and then to Europe. Other European countries have police with the right to strike (and multiple police forces, not uncoincidentally!) so the precedent is there....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
For background, the current no-strike issue for the police is related to the legal status and independence of the office of "constable". The Govt's changes will undermine that independence and as such put the strike issue into play.

 

[nedchester]

Rail workers wanting a bonus for doing their job during the Olympics is out and out greed.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'm not really sure on where I stand on these kind of strikes. They do seem selfish and it gives the impression they are not thinking about anyone but themselves. But at the same time, if I was asked to work longer hours in a more demanding and stressful environment and was not allowed to take holidays etc, then I would want some kind of compensation too (be it a higher wage, a bonus, or whatever). Added to that is the fact that an awful lot of the time, getting things done relies on the good will of staff to do more than what their job actually is. If people only did exactly what they are paid to, then I am sure the higher ups will then actually take notice to the issues. That is kind of why I think the work to rule idea that I have seen mentioned by a few news outlets would be the best. Do what you are paid to and no more.

Rail workers wanting a bonus for doing their job during the Olympics is out and out greed.

But isn't that kind of the point?
I am not sure on the details, but I would imagine the main issue here is that they wouldn't just be "doing their job". They'd be doing a lot more work than what their job description and contract actually says.

 

[SS4]

They have to pick high profile events or they'll be ignored. It takes balls to call a strike during said events with out rabidly anti-union press.