Beeching: The wonderful gift of hindsight.

[yorksrob]

The problem of the lightly used railways was not that the report had inconsistencies, the problem was that there was not enough traffic to justify the number of railway lines open in Britain. The line from Thetford to Swaffham is reported as having 9 passengers on each of the 12 trains per day. Geleneagles to Comrie is reported to have had 5 passengers on 20 trains per day.

What is remarkable is that by 1963 when the report was published BTC/BR had already shut 3429 miles of railway since 1948 so the passenger numbers/freight totals on those must have been really really poor. After the Beeching report BR “only” shut another 3633 miles of railway up till 1970 when closures more or less stopped.

I don't think that really lets Beeching off the hook.

For someone who took a decidedly mathematical approach, it seems entirely reasonable to criticise some of the methods used, such as assuming so many people would "railhead" to the nearest mainline station, or justifying the case for closure by discounting the revenue of end to end passengers where a less direct route existed.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It was obvious to most people except, it appears, Dr Richard Beeching.
He seemed to simply look at each line in isolation .

The publicly stated remit was to make BR profitable - in which the closures failed miserably to do therefore you have to question the solution and justifications used to come to it. By condemning the railway as having had its day traffic on the so called profitable bits that remained were encouraged to abandon it. The report was either a huge incompetent cock up or there was conspiracy behind it - probably both in my view.

 

[yorksrob]

The publicly stated remit was to make BR profitable - in which the closures failed miserably to do therefore you have to question the solution and justifications used to come to it. By condemning the railway as having had its day traffic on the so called profitable bits that remained were encouraged to abandon it. The report was either a huge incompetent cock up or there was conspiracy behind it - probably both in my view.

Quite.

Beeching might have gained more sympathy historically had he taken a more strategic view, for example taking the Market Weighton lines, it might have been reasonable to condemn Selby - Driffield, as it didn't really pass through any built up areas that weren't served by other routes anyway. A more sensible way to proceed thereafter would have been to say - well, Market Weighton is a reasonable sized town so with Selby - Driffield gone, it might be worth rationalising and developing York - Beverly so as to keep it, along with the other settlements on that route as a potential market. The York - Beverly through traffic could be used to bolster this case, along with potentially commuter traffic at the York and Beverley ends of the route - a not unreasonable proposition, bearing in mind the report itself quoted an average of 57 passengers per train and rationalisation had yet to take place.

Instead we got slash'n'burn.

 

[Greenback]

The publicly stated remit was to make BR profitable - in which the closures failed miserably to do therefore you have to question the solution and justifications used to come to it. By condemning the railway as having had its day traffic on the so called profitable bits that remained were encouraged to abandon it. The report was either a huge incompetent cock up or there was conspiracy behind it - probably both in my view.

Quite.

Beeching might have gained more sympathy historically had he taken a more strategic view, for example taking the Market Weighton lines, it might have been reasonable to condemn Selby - Driffield, as it didn't really pass through any built up areas that weren't served by other routes anyway. A more sensible way to proceed thereafter would have been to say - well, Market Weighton is a reasonable sized town so with Selby - Driffield gone, it might be worth rationalising and developing York - Beverly so as to keep it, along with the other settlements on that route as a potential market. The York - Beverly through traffic could be used to bolster this case, along with potentially commuter traffic at the York and Beverley ends of the route - a not unreasonable proposition, bearing in mind the report itself quoted an average of 57 passengers per train and rationalisation had yet to take place.

Instead we got slash'n'burn.

I agree with you both. The methodolgy was suspect to say the least!

 

[John55]

I don't think that really lets Beeching off the hook.

For someone who took a decidedly mathematical approach, it seems entirely reasonable to criticise some of the methods used, such as assuming so many people would "railhead" to the nearest mainline station, or justifying the case for closure by discounting the revenue of end to end passengers where a less direct route existed.

I agree and there is no suggestion of letting Beeching off the hook but the problem in 1962-3 was that there was no other method. BTC had not developed the management tools to understand the business they ran well enough.

 

[brianfraser]

I was born in 1971, therefore I grew up with the post-Beeching rail network. My dad also has an interest in railways and has told me on many occasions about the routes in Scotland that got closed down. I'm from Fife and the closures in my area that I can't really fathom are:

1) The Cowdenbeath to Perth route which was part of a straight-line connection between Edinburgh and Perth. Why on earth would you snip out a direct link between two cites? This journey now requires a circuitous route via Stirling or Kirkcaldy.

2) Dunfermline to Stirling. Two densely-populated parts of Scotland had their rail link severed. You now have to make a highly-impractical detour through Edinburgh.

3) The Fife Coastal loop to St Andrews and on to Dundee. This region was and still is very popular with tourists. St Andrews attracts students from all over the UK and also stages huge golf tournaments. It's bizarre that this town doesn't have a railway station, even stranger that it had one that got demolished.

Very little effort was made to incorporate rail travel into the new towns that sprung up in Scotland after the war. I understand that car ownership was becoming ever more popular nationwide but axeing a third of the rail system was hardly the answer. Pruning the odd branch line would have been acceptable, it does seem daft that some lines carried a mere handful of passengers per day, but the closures should have gone no further than that.

Could they not have saved costs in other ways? Like switching some stations to unmanned status? It's worth bearing in mind that many stations were closed from 1920 onwards, long before anyone had heard of Beeching, but lines were rarely shut down because freight traffic was still big business. Maybe the closures would have continued apace after the war, had the private companies not been forcibly nationalised. Perhaps BR saved some lines initially. But from what I've heard, a lot of the mess that the state-owned network found itself in was down to failed investment schemes in new marshalling yards and ordering new steam locomotives that ran for just a fraction of their natural lifespan. Why did the public have to pay for these errors of judgement?

Towns like Alloa and Kinross, previously a meeting point of several lines, suddenly found themselves wiped off the rail map completely. The Scottish border region also became a rail desert.

I appreciate that Beeching was the man appointed to do the dirty work and cop the flak. He did say late in life that some lines were barely used by the local public but every man and his dog protested when closure was slated. Like when a football club is under threat and "fans" come crawling out the woodwork who would never normally go near the place. A case of use it or lose it, if you will.

The vast majority of the closed routes can never re-open because, while miles of abandoned trackbed may still be dotted around the countryside, "missing links" have been created in town centres where the infrastructure has disappeared under car parks and shopping centres.

There have been a few success stories. Edinburgh is now reconnected with North Lanarkshire, providing an alternative route to Glasgow. Alloa has been joined to Stirling, the reconstruction of the Borders Route is apparently nearing completion.

Some people made the point that the network became artificially big because private companies tried to outflank each other in Victorian times. That may be true but it doesn't matter to me. This island was once criss-crossed with railway lines and we lost a huge chunk of it forever. Our transport network is poorer as a result.

 

[Philip Elliott]

After the Beeching report BR “only” shut another 3633 miles of railway up till 1970 when closures more or less stopped.

That is really not the case, the closures carried on at a rapid pace through the 1970s and 1980s - generally smaller chunks at a time but still significant.

 

[Greenback]

That is really not the case, the closures carried on at a rapid pace through the 1970s and 1980s - generally smaller chunks at a time but still significant.

Admittedly it;s off the top of my head, but I can only recall the following 1970's and 1980's closures:

Filey Holiday Camp (1977?)
Watercress Line (1973?)
Maiden Newton - Bridport (1975?)
Haltwhistle - Alston (1975?)
Clayton West branch (1983)
Woodhead Route (1980 but no passenger services left)
Woodside and South Croydon Line (1983)
Tunbridge Wells West line (1985)

No doubt I've forgotten a few, but it hardly seems to be a rapid pace after the carnage of the 1960's!

 

[brianfraser]

Additionally, some ex-passenger lines still in operation for freight were closed and lifted during the 70s and 80s.

 

[Greenback]

Additionally, some ex-passenger lines still in operation for freight were closed and lifted during the 70s and 80s.

Yes, that's true, we lost an awful lot of freight lines in this area during that time. I didn't include them (except Woodhead, which did retain a service at the Sheffield end I think) as the focus of this thread is on passenger services, but if Philip Elliott was talking about both freight and passenger I suppose you could argue that closures continued at pace!

Of course, a lot of the freight lines went as a result of the decline of industry, and the concentration on bulk flows rather than as any sort of planned closure programme. Around here, colliery lines to Cynheidre, Brynlliw, the Gwendreath valley all succumbed in the 1980's and 1990's. Mrs Greenback also tells me that trains were still running in the Llanelli docks area in the 1970's, but ceased in the early 1980's.

I'd be interested to know how much freight mileage was lost in each decade.

 

[Philip Elliott]

From the midlands alone:

Stratford - Cheltenham (1976)
Rugby - Marton Jn - Long Itchington (1986)
Market Harborough - Northampton (1980)
Netherfield - Weekday Cross Jn - Ruddington (1974)
Loughborough - Ruddington (1986 - now preserved)
Fledborough - Lincoln (1980)
Mansfield - Rainworth (1983)
Bolsover - Glapwell (1977)
Seymour - Bolsover (2003)
Seymour - Cresswell (1993)
Barrow Hill - Seymour (2006 -though is supposed to be reopening to Markham)
Saxilby - Torksey (1989)
Measham - Nuneaton (1970)
Moira - Measham (1981)
Beighton - Staveley (1981)
Staveley - Arkwright (1986)

That is by no means all of them and they were all passenger lines and most have been proposed for re-opening.

 

[steamybrian]

From the midlands alone:

Stratford - Cheltenham (1976)
Rugby - Marton Jn - Long Itchington (1986)
Market Harborough - Northampton (1980)
Netherfield - Weekday Cross Jn - Ruddington (1974)
Loughborough - Ruddington (1986 - now preserved)
Fledborough - Lincoln (1980)
Mansfield - Rainworth (1983)
Bolsover - Glapwell (1977)
Seymour - Bolsover (2003)
Seymour - Cresswell (1993)
Barrow Hill - Seymour (2006 -though is supposed to be reopening to Markham)
Saxilby - Torksey (1989)
Measham - Nuneaton (1970)
Moira - Measham (1981)
Beighton - Staveley (1981)
Staveley - Arkwright (1986)

That is by no means all of them and they were all passenger lines and most have been proposed for re-opening.

Most if not all these had the passenger service withdrawn years before the dates given when the freight service was withdrawn although Cheltenham-Stratford passenger service closed 1968 and Market Harborough- Northampton had one (nighttime?)passenger train per day over it. I thought Loughborough-Ruddington was still used by freight traffic to East Leake?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Admittedly it;s off the top of my head, but I can only recall the following 1970's and 1980's closures:

Filey Holiday Camp (1977?)
Watercress Line (1973?)
Maiden Newton - Bridport (1975?)
Haltwhistle - Alston (1975?)
Clayton West branch (1983)
Woodhead Route (1980 but no passenger services left)
Woodside and South Croydon Line (1983)
Tunbridge Wells West line (1985)

No doubt I've forgotten a few, but it hardly seems to be a rapid pace after the carnage of the 1960's!

Closures continued into the mid 1970s but here a few more to add to the list-

Minehead- Taunton..1971
Barry Pier- Barry Island...1971
Okehampton-Yeoford..1972
Penrith-Keswick.....1972
Rawtenstall-Bury..1972
Birmingham Snow Hilll-Wolverhampton LL..1972
Swanage-Wareham..1972
Gateacre-Hunts Cross...1972
Paignton-Kingswear 1st Jan 1973.BR service withdrawn-taken over by Paignton & K.Rly Society
Newcastle- Percy Main via Riverside..1973
March-Spalding....1982
Broad Street-Dalston Jn...1983
Kilmacolm-Paisley Canal line..1983
plus
Croxley Green-Watford Jn...1996

 

[Kali]

Barnstaple-Meeth in... 1983?
Barnstaple-Ilfracombe wasn't actually pulled up until 1975.
Poole-Wimbourne-Westmoors 1974-1977
Tiverton Jct - Hemyock 1975

 

[Gareth Marston]

Gobowen-Oswestry-Llynclys Jnc-Blodwell Quarry. Last revenue train earning train was 1988, though technically is was "mothballed" until sold into preservation sector in 2010. The report didn't list Gobowen-Oswestry passenger service to close but BR went ahead anyway claiming huge loses. As it was a run by a single DMU and the line remained open for freight there can have been no savings on track and signalling costs! Oswestry remained open for wagon load freight until 1972 I believe.

Bangor- Caernarvon was 1970.
Carmarthen- Lampeter - 1973
Lampeter- Tregaron -1972
Dee Marsh Jnc to Mickle Trafford Jnc - early 90's
Gaerwen- Amlwch early 90's
Croes Newydd- Brymbo- 1982
Wrexham Central- Wrexham Industrial Estate Siding 1982
Wrexham Central mid 90's? relocated 300 yards.
Penyfordd- Mold - 1983.
Little Mill Jnc- Glascoed
Llantarnam Jnc- Blaenavon -1982.
Tondu Middle Jnc- Blaengarw listed as disused in 1992 but tracks still in situ in 2010 when I was in Garw Valley.
Tondu Middle Jnc- Caedu.
Oakdale - Lime Kiln Jnc.

 

[yorksrob]

Minehead- Taunton..1971
Barry Pier- Barry Island...1971
Okehampton-Yeoford..1972
Penrith-Keswick.....1972
Rawtenstall-Bury..1972
Birmingham Snow Hilll-Wolverhampton LL..1972
Swanage-Wareham..1972
Gateacre-Hunts Cross...1972
Paignton-Kingswear 1st Jan 1973.BR service withdrawn-taken over by Paignton & K.Rly Society
Newcastle- Percy Main via Riverside..1973
March-Spalding....1982
Broad Street-Dalston Jn...1983
Kilmacolm-Paisley Canal line..1983
plus
Croxley Green-Watford Jn...1996

That's certainly a very sorry list to which I'm guessing we could add Bolton - Rochdale at some stage.

I hadn't really thought about freight closures in this thread, but I guess they are relevant - particularly since a few of the re-openings in the late 1980's - early 1990's used former freight only lines.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

That's certainly a very sorry list to which I'm guessing we could add Bolton - Rochdale at some stage.

I hadn't really thought about freight closures in this thread, but I guess they are relevant - particularly since a few of the re-openings in the late 1980's - early 1990's used former freight only lines.

Has anyone mentioned Bridgend - Cymmer; 1970? Reopened from Bridgend to Maesteg in 1992.

 

[Greenback]

I kew I'd forgotten quite a few lines, but shame on me for forgetting Bury - Rawtenstall and Wareham - Swanage, as I've been on the Eat Lancs and Swanage heritage lines!

It's obviously very much easier to restore passenger trains to freight only lines than it is to restore whole sections of track that have bene ripped up. Sadly, some of the old colliery and industrial line shad their passenger services withdrawn years before. The Gwendraeth Valley line, for example, lost its passenger trains in the 1950's because the line ran across the natural traffic flows for the inhabitants in the valley. So we can't blame Beeching for that one!

It was only kept open until 1996 because of the coal, traffic without that there is absolutely no reason for the line to survive.

 

[Waverley125]

I think if we were able to send documentation about today's transport needs back to the 1950s, the resultant policies would be obvious:

1. Almost no heritage railway lines. All of the 'big lines'-the NYMR, the WSR, Bluebell, Great Central, Peak Rail, Nene Valley, Swanage, Weardale, Wensleydale, Lakeside & Haverthwaite.....all get retained as freight or tourist routes. The Severn valley potentially stays, but that's about it of the 'big names'.

2. Line upgrades happen earlier & faster. APT gets fully developed (someone realises motors can go under the floors) & the WCML gets upgraded in the 80s. Far fewer, if any, HSTs get built.

3. Far more urban transport systems are retained. The trams in Glasgow, Leeds & Nottingham don't get scrapped, and are expanded, while urban railways are prioritised for redevelopment.

4. The Need for HSR is obviated. The GCML is retained, and some bottlenecks (e.g. Welwyn, Morpeth) are dealt with. Some new line is built (Edinburgh-Newcastle), but the HS system never materialises.

 

[John55]

I think if we were able to send documentation about today's transport needs back to the 1950s, the resultant policies would be obvious:

1. Almost no heritage railway lines. All of the 'big lines'-the NYMR, the WSR, Bluebell, Great Central, Peak Rail, Nene Valley, Swanage, Weardale, Wensleydale, Lakeside & Haverthwaite.....all get retained as freight or tourist routes. The Severn valley potentially stays, but that's about it of the 'big names'.

2. Line upgrades happen earlier & faster. APT gets fully developed (someone realises motors can go under the floors) & the WCML gets upgraded in the 80s. Far fewer, if any, HSTs get built.

3. Far more urban transport systems are retained. The trams in Glasgow, Leeds & Nottingham don't get scrapped, and are expanded, while urban railways are prioritised for redevelopment.

4. The Need for HSR is obviated. The GCML is retained, and some bottlenecks (e.g. Welwyn, Morpeth) are dealt with. Some new line is built (Edinburgh-Newcastle), but the HS system never materialises.

Nottingham trams had gone by 1936 so I don't think it would make a lot of difference to that city.

 

[Tiny Tim]

I think if we were able to send documentation about today's transport needs back to the 1950s, the resultant policies would be obvious:

At the risk of over-using hindsight, some of today's transport needs were predictable. Even in the 1960s we knew oil wouldn't last forever and that road congestion was a problem. The future potential for rail was, frankly, ignored.

 

[Greenback]

At the risk of over-using hindsight, some of today's transport needs were predictable. Even in the 1960s we knew oil wouldn't last forever and that road congestion was a problem. The future potential for rail was, frankly, ignored.

I don't think there was widespread acknowledgement that oil would run out within a couple of centuries though. Most people in the decision making heights of society thought that new oil fields would continue to be found and that new technology would allow inacesible fields to be exploited.

There were also the ideas about hydrogen cars, which resurface from time to time today.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Governments are renowned for taking short term views, such as ignoring the future oil supply and congestion, but Beeching was ideally positioned to use such predictions, he wasn't a politician, and had no problem making unpopular decisions.

 

[Greenback]

Beeching was also given a strict remit about making the railways pay. I doubt that remit included looking decades ahead and deciding that railways would be worth their while again!

To put it into a sort of context, who could really have believed what would hapepn to our high streets in so many of our towns as a result of the internet and retail parks?

I'm not really disagreeing with what you say, governments are extremely short termist, and they had already pretty much decided that roads were the future.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Most people in the decision making heights of society thought that new oil fields would continue to be found and that new technology would allow inacesible fields to be exploited.There were also the ideas about hydrogen cars, which resurface from time to time today.

Nothing has changed. The people making decisions are still amateurs, i.e. MPs, who are wide open to the blandishments of professionals acting on behalf of vested interests; perish the thought that brown envelopes might be involved.

Marples, who turned out to be a crook and later fled the country*, should never have been in charge of transport policy given his own self interest in road building. Would you put the owner of a drugs company in charge of the NHS?

When you look at the makeup of recent governments, the situation is even more worrying. How many of those people came from careers in industry or the public services? Very few have had any experience outside politics, which is now seen as a career in itself, and they are subject to the advice of senior civil servants. Civil servants are, of course, not subject to corruption.

The running of the railways should have been left to a management team not subject to the whims of ambitious politicians who entered the revolving door of the Ministry of Transport.

* From Wikipaedia. "In the early 70s ... he tried to fight off a revaluation of his assets which would undoubtedly cost him dear ... So Marples decided he had to go and hatched a plot to remove £2 million from Britain through his Liechtenstein company ... there was nothing for it but to cut and run, which Marples did just before the tax year of 1975. He left by the night ferry with his belongings crammed into tea chests, leaving the floors of his home in Belgravia littered with discarded clothes and possessions ... He claimed he had been asked to pay nearly 30 years' overdue tax ... The Treasury froze his assets in Britain for the next ten years. By then most of them were safely in Monaco and Liechtenstein."

As well as being wanted for tax fraud, one source alleges that Marples was being sued in Britain by tenants of his slum properties and by former employees. He never returned to Britain, living the remainder of his life at his Fleurie Beaujolais château and vineyard in France

 

[Tiny Tim]

To put it into a sort of context, who could really have believed what would happen to our high streets in so many of our towns as a result of the internet and retail parks?

Admittedly, predicting the future is a hazardous game, the changes brought about by the advent of the internet have been profound, rapid and (at least to me) unexpected.

I can certainly remember 'energy crises' in the '70s, there must have been some awareness of oil being finite in the previous decade. Beeching, for all his faults, must have been in a position to make a judgement on the issue. I can only imagine that he assumed railways would not be part of the future at all, including a future with less oil.

 

[tbtc]

At the risk of over-using hindsight, some of today's transport needs were predictable. Even in the 1960s we knew oil wouldn't last forever and that road congestion was a problem. The future potential for rail was, frankly, ignored.

Beeching was making decisions well before we discovered huge quantities of oil in the North Sea though - at the time it seemed like there was plenty of scope for more roads/ cars.

I'm not defending the guy to the hilt, but a lot of the anti-Beeching stuff does get rather far fetched and into the realms of conspiracy theory.

 

[Tiny Tim]

I'm not defending the guy to the hilt, but a lot of the anti-Beeching stuff does get rather far fetched and into the realms of conspiracy theory.

I agree. Whilst Marples clearly had a vested interest in road building, his influence on Beeching extended only as far as giving him the job. There was no need for Marples to pull strings or indulge in back room dealing, he'd already selected the man who would 'do the right thing'. Marples, it transpired, was a crook, but there's nothing to suggest he influenced Beeching's decision making whilst the infamous report was being written.

 

[swcovas]

Yes, that's true, we lost an awful lot of freight lines in this area during that time. I didn't include them (except Woodhead, which did retain a service at the Sheffield end I think) as the focus of this thread is on passenger services, but if Philip Elliott was talking about both freight and passenger I suppose you could argue that closures continued at pace!

Of course, a lot of the freight lines went as a result of the decline of industry, and the concentration on bulk flows rather than as any sort of planned closure programme. Around here, colliery lines to Cynheidre, Brynlliw, the Gwendreath valley all succumbed in the 1980's and 1990's. Mrs Greenback also tells me that trains were still running in the Llanelli docks area in the 1970's, but ceased in the early 1980's.

I'd be interested to know how much freight mileage was lost in each decade.

Intrigued about Mrs Greenback's comments. I was under the impression that the Docks and all connections to it closed in the late 50s. I'm curious to know more. I seem to remember that there was track actually in the road outside the entrance to Llanelli station still around but disused in the early 70s. What would this have been?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think there was widespread acknowledgement that oil would run out within a couple of centuries though. Most people in the decision making heights of society thought that new oil fields would continue to be found and that new technology would allow inacesible fields to be exploited.

There were also the ideas about hydrogen cars, which resurface from time to time today.[/QU

Beeching 2 published in 1965 looked at projections for freight movement for 1984.......his estimates regarding coal were way off the mark!

 

[Greenback]

Nothing has changed. The people making decisions are still amateurs, i.e. MPs, who are wide open to the blandishments of professionals acting on behalf of vested interests; perish the thought that brown envelopes might be involved.

Marples, who turned out to be a crook and later fled the country*, should never have been in charge of transport policy given his own self interest in road building. Would you put the owner of a drugs company in charge of the NHS?

I agree! Though I wouldn't be surprised if a drugs company owner was pu tin charge of the NHS in England...

Intrigued about Mrs Greenback's comments. I was under the impression that the Docks and all connections to it closed in the late 50s. I'm curious to know more. I seem to remember that there was track actually in the road outside the entrance to Llanelli station still around but disused in the early 70s. What would this have been?

The docks in Llanelli close din 1951, but rail connections remained to several works in the docks area until the 1980's. Mrs G says that the longest lasting rail conenction ran behind her house in the Morfa area and small, noisy engines were definitely running up and down in the 1970s!

As regards the rails in the road, we think this was either the cattle line which ran across the level crossing gates, and where the cattle were walked off at the cattle dock to the side of the station or the line to the old Llanelli gasworks, which ran alongside the former Copperworks School and behind the old pub (now a childrens party venue) before crossing the main line and entering the Glanmor Foundry. Little steam engines used to take coke to the foundry and gasworks until the mid to late 1960's.

On balance, Mrs Greenback thinks that the latter is more likely!

 

[swcovas]

I agree. Whilst Marples clearly had a vested interest in road building, his influence on Beeching extended only as far as giving him the job. There was no need for Marples to pull strings or indulge in back room dealing, he'd already selected the man who would 'do the right thing'. Marples, it transpired, was a crook, but there's nothing to suggest he influenced Beeching's decision making whilst the infamous report was being written.

He probably didn't have to exert undue influence. He had given Beeching strict parametres within which to work. ie no consideration was to be given to social consequences of closure.... "HARDSHIP" was the key word. If it couldn't be shown that hardship would occur as a result of closure then so be it. Holidaymakers making their way to resorts could find other means if a line was closed and were not considered to suffer any "hardship". Suggestions of how to improve a service or how costs could be cut were not allowed as evidence at a TUCC hearing. But at the end of the day it was the Minister for Transport who decided. Strangely after the hearing into the closure proposal for Carmarthen - Aberystwyth (a line which occasionally gets discussed as a reopening possibility) the wording of the TUCC report was carefully chosen. It said that they believed there would be “severe hardship” to workers using the first trains into and out of Aberystwyth and the return evening service. To a lesser degree there would be hardship to occasional travellers using the line to/from South Wales. The committee believed there would only be a slight impact to the tourist industry. No recommendation or otherwise as to closure was made and the report then went to the Minister for Transport for his decision. It was another year before the approval was actually given.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree! Though I wouldn't be surprised if a drugs company owner was pu tin charge of the NHS in England...



The docks in Llanelli close din 1951, but rail connections remained to several works in the docks area until the 1980's. Mrs G says that the longest lasting rail conenction ran behind her house in the Morfa area and small, noisy engines were definitely running up and down in the 1970s!

As regards the rails in the road, we think this was either the cattle line which ran across the level crossing gates, and where the cattle were walked off at the cattle dock to the side of the station or the line to the old Llanelli gasworks, which ran alongside the former Copperworks School and behind the old pub (now a childrens party venue) before crossing the main line and entering the Glanmor Foundry. Little steam engines used to take coke to the foundry and gasworks until the mid to late 1960's.

On balance, Mrs Greenback thinks that the latter is more likely!

Thanks for that. I was wandering round outside Llanelli station a few weeks ago for the first time in many years and remembered the old line outside. New housing there now.