Changing Advance tickets

[paulfoel]

I understand these are non-refundable but can be changed (for a fee).

From London to South Wales its often cheaper to buy an advance 1st class ticket (£80) for a specific train, rather than a standard class anytime ticket. (£100)

But, of course, its for a specific train with no flexibility.

Question:-

OK. Say I'm booked on 1730 train. At 1700, I decide I'm not going to make it and phone to change the ticket to 1800 train. (For a start, if I've phoned how do I physically get new ticket?)

Assuming since its an hour to go I can no longer get an advance ticket on the 1800? What happens then? Do I get a credit towards an anytime ticket at £100 (minus admin fee)?

 

[yorkie]

OK. Say I'm booked on 1730 train. At 1700, I decide I'm not going to make it and phone to change the ticket to 1800 train. (For a start, if I've phoned how do I physically get new ticket?)

I am unsure if this can be done by telesales.

Assuming since its an hour to go I can no longer get an advance ticket on the 1800? What happens then? Do I get a credit towards an anytime ticket at £100 (minus admin fee)?

Advance fares availability would expire the previous night (between 1800 & 2359 depending on the train and TOC), so the excess would have to be towards the appropriate walk-up fare (ie, Super Off Peak, Off Peak, Anytime), plus admin fee.

 

[bb21]

Do you mean you have booked an Advance First Class ticket on the 1730 for, say, £80 and wish to change that to the £100 ticket for travel on the 1800?

 

[LexyBoy]

You would need to change it at a ticket office, and before the departure of the originally booked train. After this time the ticket has no value.

You would pay the difference in fares (so say £100-£80=£20) plus a £10 admin fee per ticket. You can change e.g. a 1st Advance to a Standard Anytime/Off Peak/Super Off Peak. You can't however change the origin or destination station.

 

[paulfoel]

Do you mean you have booked an Advance First Class ticket on the 1730 for, say, £80 and wish to change that to the £100 ticket for travel on the 1800?

Yes thats it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You would need to change it at a ticket office, and before the departure of the originally booked train. After this time the ticket has no value.

You would pay the difference in fares (so say £100-£80=£20) plus a £10 admin fee per ticket. You can change e.g. a 1st Advance to a Standard Anytime/Off Peak/Super Off Peak. You can't however change the origin or destination station.

Right but needs to be at ticket office. No good if, at 4pm I'm stuck in the office and realise I'm not going to make my original booked train.

Pity it can't be done online. i.e. as you say amend my 1st advance to a standard anytime with payment of the additional.

In my situation, it'd be miss the train and lose the ticket completely. Bit of a risk.

 

[LexyBoy]

Using Advance tickets if you're not confident in making that train is a risk. If that risk isn't acceptable then a different ticket type would be more suitable.

I've not used it myself, but I believe WebTIS based booking systems (as used by FGW, East Coast, Chiltern) do allow amendments to be made to tickets, as long as they haven't been collected yet (do allow plenty of time for collection though, the queues can be big).

By the way, London-Wales needn't cost more than ~£50 in the evening peak (not using Advance tickets, standard class).

 

[paulfoel]

Using Advance tickets if you're not confident in making that train is a risk. If that risk isn't acceptable then a different ticket type would be more suitable.

I've not used it myself, but I believe WebTIS based booking systems (as used by FGW, East Coast, Chiltern) do allow amendments to be made to tickets, as long as they haven't been collected yet (do allow plenty of time for collection though, the queues can be big).

By the way, London-Wales needn't cost more than ~£50 in the evening peak (not using Advance tickets, standard class).

???

Looking at FGW website, its £50 for 1615 or wait until 1845. In between, its £101.50

 

[Deerfold]

I've not used it myself, but I believe WebTIS based booking systems (as used by FGW, East Coast, Chiltern) do allow amendments to be made to tickets, as long as they haven't been collected yet (do allow plenty of time for collection though, the queues can be big).

WebTIS allows amendments to be made to tickets which have been collected - I did it myself on Friday on East Coast for a ticket which I moved from Saturday to a date in February. However you need to allow time for the excess ticket to be posted as they won't then allow that to be TOD. I think they may have to be made by the previous evening so that the seat reservation for your original journey is not printed out.

 

[LexyBoy]

???

Looking at FGW website, its £50 for 1615 or wait until 1845. In between, its £101.50

London-Reading Anytime Day Single £17.60
Reading-Didcot Off Peak Day Single £5.90
Didcot-Cardiff Super Off Peak Single £29.00

It restricts you to trains calling at Didcot - usually this is the xx:15, not the xx:45, or you can the xx:00 or xx:30 Bristol trains, many of which call at Didcot, and change at Swindon).

WebTIS allows amendments to be made to tickets which have been collected - I did it myself on Friday on East Coast for a ticket which I moved from Saturday to a date in February. However you need to allow time for the excess ticket to be posted as they won't then allow that to be TOD. I think they may have to be made by the previous evening so that the seat reservation for your original journey is not printed out.

That's surprising, it sounds extremely abusable...

 

[Deerfold]

That's surprising, it sounds extremely abusable...

That thought had occurred - though if you are caught abusing it, the evidence is very straightforward.

 

[philjo]

WebTIS allows amendments to be made to tickets which have been collected - I did it myself on Friday on East Coast for a ticket which I moved from Saturday to a date in February. However you need to allow time for the excess ticket to be posted as they won't then allow that to be TOD. I think they may have to be made by the previous evening so that the seat reservation for your original journey is not printed out.

I had to make a change for an EC booking last year - travelling back 24 hours later than originally planned. I did this through EC website where I had made the original booking about 2 weeks before the travel date (the original tickets had already been collected). It let me do this for the £10 fee - a print at home PDF was issued to be used in conjunction with the original ticket/reservations showing validity on the rebooked train.

 

[Deerfold]

I had to make a change for an EC booking last year - travelling back 24 hours later than originally planned. I did this through EC website where I had made the original booking about 2 weeks before the travel date (the original tickets had already been collected). It let me do this for the £10 fee - a print at home PDF was issued to be used in conjunction with the original ticket/reservations showing validity on the rebooked train.

Ah - that'll be OK where travel is entirely on East Coast - in my case I had a Northern connection.

 

[John @ home]

That's surprising, it sounds extremely abusable...

The experience of a family member suggests that the online ticket change facility is not any more open to abuse than any other change of ticket.

A ticket purchased through East Coast and routed "EC & Connectns" was changed to a different date using the East Coast web site. The excess fare ticket and associated seat reservation were sent by post. The reservation was valid only with a ticket bearing the number of the excess fare ticket. The excess fare ticket was valid only with a ticket bearing the number of the original travel ticket. The receipt for the £10.00 change fee was on a separate piece of white card which was not the same size as the tickets. Both excess fare ticket and original travel ticket were examined and stamped by the train guard.

I fail to see any additional risk of abuse.

 

[TEW]

I suppose the only potential abuse is using the ticket on the original service. So booking an advance ticket on one train, then immediately changing it online for one half an hour later, hence giving yourself the choice of two trains. When I changed my advance ticket at the station the excess was stapled to the original ticket and the original reservation defaced to prevent me using it on the original service.

 

[yorkie]

I suppose the only potential abuse is using the ticket on the original service. So booking an advance ticket on one train, then immediately changing it online for one half an hour later, hence giving yourself the choice of two trains....

Given the £10 admin fee plus excess, then for cheap tickets, it is likely cheaper to book 2 advance tickets, while for expensive tickets it is likely to be cheaper to book an Off Peak ticket (especially if returning!) which would give you the choice of any train. So it's only going to be a very limited proportion of journeys where such a 'choice' would be economical by such a method, so I doubt the TOCs would be too concerned.

 

[TEW]

Well if you book two advance tickets at the same time, fairly soon after they're released you'd probably get them both at or near the same price, so the excess fee would be all you'd pay.

For example I've just looked at King's Cross to Newcastle for the first week in March. For £49.50 I could buy an Advance ticket for the 1830 and for just £10 I could then excess it for the 1930, giving me a choice of two trains. Then Super-Off Peak single (which wouldn't even be valid on the 1830) would be £121. I do accept the point about return tickets though, I don't think it's a massive potential for lost revenue but it definitely exists, and excessing at a ticket office should prevent it.

 

[bb21]

You've picked a poor example there, although I do get your point. If you substitute Newcastle with somewhere like Heworth and you have a perfect example.

In your particular example, you can purchase the East Coast online-only Super Off-Peak Single for £60.50

 

[TEW]

Ah, well it would have been a good idea to use the EC booking engine. It still illustrates the point I'm making though.

 

[paulfoel]

London-Reading Anytime Day Single £17.60
Reading-Didcot Off Peak Day Single £5.90
Didcot-Cardiff Super Off Peak Single £29.00

It restricts you to trains calling at Didcot - usually this is the xx:15, not the xx:45, or you can the xx:00 or xx:30 Bristol trains, many of which call at Didcot, and change at Swindon).


That's surprising, it sounds extremely abusable...

Right. Split ticketing.... Utilising the fact that the later trains are not peak.

Is this allowed though?

Just can see funny looks if I stroll up to ticket booth and ask for these 3 tickets?

And what happens on train when conductor checks your first ticket and then maybe notices your still on train after Reading? Yes, you've got another ticket but its going to look strange.

 

[maniacmartin]

It is explicitly allowed by the section 19b of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, the contract that governs almost all UK rail tickets.

You can read more on this page of our ticketting guide

 

[paulfoel]

It is explicitly allowed by the section 19b of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, the contract that governs almost all UK rail tickets.

You can read more on this page of our ticketting guide

Wow. Thats excellent.

In practice though, is this widely done? Or is hassle experienced when both buying the tickets and on board the train?

 

[island]

Wow. Thats excellent.

In practice though, is this widely done? Or is hassle experienced when both buying the tickets and on board the train?

A wide range of people use various ticket combinations on a regular basis.

Section 19 (b) splits where the train calls at the point(s) where you change from one ticket to another very rarely cause issues. Some guards prefer to have all the tickets presented to them at the first inspection and others only prefer to see the one you're using at the time, but this is a matter of their personal preference rather than any rule.

 

[LexyBoy]

Apologies for the confusion re East Coast's online excess, I misread Deerfold's post as meaning EC send out a new set of tickets, rather than an excess.

Wow. Thats excellent.

In practice though, is this widely done? Or is hassle experienced when both buying the tickets and on board the train?

Didcot is probably the most widely used "splitting" location on the network, as it's been well publicised around Bristol (not by FGW, obviously!) and the savings can be substantial. It's so well known that it's not unusual to hear announcements on leaving London to the effect of "this train does not stop at Didcot, if you have tickets split at Didcot you will need to change at Reading".

You certainly shouldn't have any problem buying them (if you do, complain!) and won't on the train as long as it calls at the station(s) you have split at.

The reason it works so well in this instance is that there are no evening peak restrictions from stations west from Didcot, nor on the Reading-Didcot ticket.

 

[Wolfie]

Apologies for the confusion re East Coast's online excess, I misread Deerfold's post as meaning EC send out a new set of tickets, rather than an excess.



Didcot is probably the most widely used "splitting" location on the network, as it's been well publicised around Bristol (not by FGW, obviously!) and the savings can be substantial. It's so well known that it's not unusual to hear announcements on leaving London to the effect of "this train does not stop at Didcot, if you have tickets split at Didcot you will need to change at Reading".

You certainly shouldn't have any problem buying them (if you do, complain!) and won't on the train as long as it calls at the station(s) you have split at.

The reason it works so well in this instance is that there are no evening peak restrictions from stations west from Didcot, nor on the Reading-Didcot ticket.

What, they don't say "unless one of your tickets is a season ticket"???

 

[LexyBoy]

I did actually hear that once, thought the guard must have been given a recent earbashing by a RailUK member!

 

[bb21]

I bet the vast majority of people who have a season and did the above split would know about Condition 19(c) so I don't think it is always necessary to cover every eventuality in the announcement, otherwise you will never leave Paddington.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

What, they don't say "unless one of your tickets is a season ticket"???

Given that, even under parts a and c, the entire journey must be covered, I don't see that they have to all the time.

EDIT: I'm thinking of trains that head towards Oxford rather than South Wales though.....

 

[Hadders]

I used split tickets to travel from Stevenage to Bath in the evening peak a year or so ago and was congratulated by the guard on the train out of Paddington for my choice of tickets.

IIRC I paid a total of around £44 return compared to around £150 that I would have been charged had I just asked at the ticket office for a return to Bath.

 

[CallySleeper]

Regarding amending tickets bought online (East Coast). I've already collected them, and in My Account -> My Bookings, the 'Amend' button has been greyed out. Is there another way to change a booking online or do I have to take it to a ticket office?

 

[Tetchytyke]

If the amend button has been greyed out, it'll either be because the ticket cannot be amended or that you're too close to the travel time to be able to do it. If your ticket is an EC Flat Fare ticket (e.g. a recent sale ticket) or a Rewards ticket you cannot amend them. Tickets that have already been collected can be amended, I've done it before on more than one occasion.

Give Web Support a call?