Malton to Doncaster via Leeds and return to York

[FQ]

Hi,
On June the 6th I will be heading up to Yorkshire to see my grandparents who live up in Pickering so I can go on the tour the Highland Clansman from Darlington to Avimore. The day after I have decided that I will get dad to drive me to Malton station and catch the 11:13 class 185 to York getting there at 11:38 and then I will spot there for a bit. I will then catch the 12:45 HST to Leeds getting there at 13:11. I then spot at Leeds before catching the 14:05 HST to Doncaster getting there at 14:36. I then have about half an hour at Doncaster before getting the 14:52 Grand Central HST to York getting there at 15:19.
It should be really fun!!!
I was wandering if anyone could help me on what tickets to buy because I currently think I should buy a child single from Malton to Leeds, a child single from Leeds to Doncaster and a child single from Doncaster to York.
Then I will be picked up in the car to go home from York to Long Itchington.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Could anyone help?

 

[Searle]

An off peak day single from Malton - York (£4.45) and an anytime day return from York - Doncaster (£9.30, valid via Leeds) would do, totalling £13.75.

On a side note, you might want to buy an off peak return for the first journey (costs 5p more, £4.50), and would mean you would be able to travel back to Malton if needs be.

Hope you enjoy your trip

 

[ainsworth74]

and an anytime day return from York - Doncaster (£9.30, valid via Leeds)

Are you sure that's valid via Leeds?

 

[yorkie]

You might be better off with a Poppleton to Doncaster ticket.

This is because ATOC changed the Routeing Guide, without DfT approval (DfT have no record of permission being sought) and removed via Leeds as a permitted route for York to Doncaster.

Despite this being an illegal change to the Routeing Guide, there is no effective ombudsman to do anything about it. In practice, the vast majority of Guards will accept York-Doncaster tickets via Leeds, but I have heard that one or two XC Guards do not accept them.

I would never buy a York-Doncaster ticket, or a York-Leeds ticket, as both are a complete and utter rip-off these days, and there are many other possible tickets (especially for York-Leeds) which are better value.

Poppleton - Doncaster is valid via Leeds, as Leeds is an appropriate Routeing Point (the fare from Leeds to Doncaster being cheaper), and the shortest route to Leeds is via York.

York - Doncaster is "reasonable" via Leeds, and was obviously a permitted route in BR days, so it ought to be permitted now. I suggest people buy tickets from Poppleton instead.

Reasonable routes are under threat for many other flows too, and there's no safeguards evident to prevent the loss of reasonable routes.

 

[Searle]

I always thought it was. I thought York - Lincoln and York - Stevenage was, so I assumed York - Doncaster was as well!

I see it's been removed as a permitted route which is news to me haha

 

[lyndhurst25]

I've noticed a few "reasonable" routes being lost, especially since the big Routing Guide re-write of October 2013. Time for a Routing Ombudsman to be appointed? A lot of the damage has already been done though.

Yorkie, I'd be interested in any suggestions for getting the price of Doncaster (or Rotherham) to York down to reasonable levels. I ask because last weekend my nephew's family went to visit the NRM (he's 4 and loves trains). They were going to go on the train but, on seeing the ticket prices, decided to drive. He liked it so much that wants to go again!

 

[FQ]

Thanks guys. So you think I should buy a Malton-York (child return) and then a Poppleton-Doncaster (child return).
With the Poppleton-Doncaster would it be valid from York to Doncaster via York and Leeds and then Doncaster to York via the ECML. I don't want to take the risk of being checked by a guard and not being valid.
Again thanks for the advice.

 

[itsjustmyjob]

You might be better off with a Poppleton to Doncaster ticket.

This is because...

I would never buy a York-Doncaster ticket, or a York-Leeds ticket, as both are a complete and utter rip-off these days, and there are many other possible tickets (especially for York-Leeds) which are better value.

...and there's no safeguards evident to prevent the loss of reasonable routes.

Out of interest, what is a better York-Leeds ticket please?

 

[lyndhurst25]

Looking through the archives it seems that a Doncaster to York loophole involved using Easement 00045, which unfortunately has just been removed as of 16/04/2014.:cry:

Does anyone know of any others that are still in force? Thanks.

 

[FQ]

Looking through the archives it seems that a Doncaster to York loophole involved using Easement 00045, which unfortunately has just been removed as of 16/04/2014.:cry:

Does anyone know of any others that are still in force? Thanks.

Does this mean that a Malton-York ticket and then a Poppleton to Doncaster ticket will be useless to get me from York to Doncaster via Leeds? Does this mean I will need to get a MLT-LDS and then a LDS-DON and a DON-YRK/POP.
If not and I don't need to buy that amount of tickets please say.
Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

Does this mean that a Malton-York ticket and then a Poppleton to Doncaster ticket will be useless to get me from York to Doncaster via Leeds? .

As stated above, Poppleton-Doncaster is valid via Leeds. So there is no problem at all using a Poppleton-Doncaster ticket.

It's the same price as York-Doncaster! It costs more than Leeds-Doncaster, but this is a much cheaper way of doing it than singles. Single tickets are generally charged at a premium compared to returns.

 

[FQ]

As stated above, Poppleton-Doncaster is valid via Leeds. So there is no problem at all using a Poppleton-Doncaster ticket.

It's the same price as York-Doncaster! It costs more than Leeds-Doncaster, but this is a much cheaper way of doing it than singles. Single tickets are generally charged at a premium compared to returns.

Thanks. Sorry to be a pain but my dad said that the ticket from Poppleton to Doncaster might only be valid from Poppleton to Doncaster via Harrogate and Leeds or Doncaster via York and direct down the ECML. He also said he didn't reckon that it would be valid from Poppleton to Doncaster via York, Church Fenton and Leeds. Will it?
Again thanks for all the help.

 

[bb21]

Yes, it is valid Poppleton - York - Leeds - Doncaster.

 

[34D]

Looking through the archives it seems that a Doncaster to York loophole involved using Easement 00045, which unfortunately has just been removed as of 16/04/2014.:cry:

Does anyone know of any others that are still in force? Thanks.

Start a new thread? I think you've caused confusion/anxiety to the OP of this thread.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes, it is valid Poppleton - York - Leeds - Doncaster.

And doncaster-temple hirst-york-poppleton.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Start a new thread? I think you've caused confusion/anxiety to the OP of this thread.

Sorry if I have.

No new thread required - it took me a while but I've managed to find some South Yorkshire to York fares that meet my requirements.

 

[FQ]

Yes, it is valid Poppleton - York - Leeds - Doncaster.

Thanks I will go for a child return MLT-YRK and then a child return from POP-DON.
Thanks again for the help everyone.

 

[yorkie]

Poppleton-Conisbrough is additionally valid via Pontefract & Swinton, under the shortest route rule.

York-Doncaster is such poor value, that a ticket to Dronfield (in Derbyshire) only costs a fraction more. A ticket to Dronfield would only cost fishquinn 50p extra for a vast amount of extra validity. In fact, if you are travelling at peak and returning a different day it's cheaper to buy a return to Dronfield!

York-Doncaster used to be good value, but the price has risen from £5 for an off peak day return (around 2000-2002ish), to a whopping £18.60 today. I believe this rise is in line with Government policy to encourage people into cars.

 

[FQ]

Poppleton-Conisbrough is additionally valid via Pontefract & Swinton, under the shortest route rule.

York-Doncaster is such poor value, that a ticket to Dronfield (in Derbyshire) only costs a fraction more. A ticket to Dronfield would only cost fishquinn 50p extra for a vast amount of extra validity. In fact, if you are travelling at peak and returning a different day it's cheaper to buy a return to Dronfield!

York-Doncaster used to be good value, but the price has risen from £5 for an off peak day return (around 2000-2002ish), to a whopping £18.60 today. I believe this rise is in line with Government policy to encourage people into cars.

Eek. It is only 20-25 minutes on a train from York to Doncaster and it is 2h 15m from Poppleton to Dronfield changing at York and Sheffield.

 

[pennine]

Could someone please PM me about any tricks to lower the fare between York-Leeds please? Identical to the Direct fare to Middlesbrough!

 

[yorkie]

Could someone please PM me about any tricks to lower the fare between York-Leeds please? Identical to the Direct fare to Middlesbrough!

OK I'll send itsjustmyjob and yourself a PM.

I must admit we do prefer to meet people first to be satisfied they're not pricing managers in disguise (yes, pricing managers certainly do read this forum! ). Fares Workshops and forum meals are recommended...

 

[pennine]

OK I'll send itsjustmyjob and yourself a PM.

I must admit we do prefer to meet people first to be satisfied they're not pricing managers in disguise (yes, pricing managers certainly do read this forum! ). Fares Workshops and forum meals are recommended...

I would love to meet fellow members, but presently I am a full time carer for my father and volunteer at my local Citizens Advice as an adviser when time allows lol. Other than including facebook, linkdin etc I am happy to share via pm if need be .

PS my post from thread month regarding ticket faulty TVM and having the matter dealt with by Northernman (thanks to this forum) suggests I'm more Joe Public

 

[FQ]

You might be better off with a Poppleton to Doncaster ticket.

This is because ATOC changed the Routeing Guide, without DfT approval (DfT have no record of permission being sought) and removed via Leeds as a permitted route for York to Doncaster.

Despite this being an illegal change to the Routeing Guide, there is no effective ombudsman to do anything about it. In practice, the vast majority of Guards will accept York-Doncaster tickets via Leeds, but I have heard that one or two XC Guards do not accept them.

I would never buy a York-Doncaster ticket, or a York-Leeds ticket, as both are a complete and utter rip-off these days, and there are many other possible tickets (especially for York-Leeds) which are better value.

Poppleton - Doncaster is valid via Leeds, as Leeds is an appropriate Routeing Point (the fare from Leeds to Doncaster being cheaper), and the shortest route to Leeds is via York.

York - Doncaster is "reasonable" via Leeds, and was obviously a permitted route in BR days, so it ought to be permitted now. I suggest people buy tickets from Poppleton instead.

Reasonable routes are under threat for many other flows too, and there's no safeguards evident to prevent the loss of reasonable routes.

How much money would that cost for both the Malton-York and the Poppleton to Doncaster. Thanks.