Watford Blockades

[ChiefPlanner]

Trust me - do not go back in time over WCML (Mk1 upgrades) - 16 weekends s for Ledburn Junction only for the wrong equipment to be installed (and another 14 weeks to rectify)

As for Stockport - .........(Norton Bridge , Stoke, - a litany of shame)

 

[Class 170101]

presumably the sleepers are going via ECML?

Could the Sleeper not be diverted to Paddington instead of SLW at Euston? Would that not be easier?

 

[alex17595]

Could the Sleeper not be diverted to Paddington instead of SLW at Euston? Would that not be easier?

I don't think the platforms are long enough. What about Waterloo International?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Could the Sleeper not be diverted to Paddington instead of SLW at Euston? Would that not be easier?

None of the platforms are long enough. Nor at King's Cross for that matter.
They would fit in the Eurostar platforms at St Pancras, or the old ones at Waterloo (and possibly the even older boat-train platforms at Victoria).

 

[Bald Rick]

None of the platforms are long enough. Nor at King's Cross for that matter.
They would fit in the Eurostar platforms at St Pancras, or the old ones at Waterloo (and possibly the even older boat-train platforms at Victoria).

Alas they wouldn't fit in Victoria, not by a long way.
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Trust me - do not go back in time over WCML (Mk1 upgrades) - 16 weekends s for Ledburn Junction only for the wrong equipment to be installed (and another 14 weeks to rectify)

As for Stockport - .........(Norton Bridge , Stoke, - a litany of shame)

Meanwhile, the longest all line possession for Euston remodelling in 1999/2000 was... 11 hours. So it can be done if the circumstances are right.

 

[IrishDave]

Virgin have been route learning it properly so it saves them a few quid on being route conducted. Are there any blocks on at Acton this weekend for Crossrail stuff? or around Willesden? as if there are then Virgin can't run them anyway.

Ah, didn't think of that - yes, looks like the relief lines are blocked on the GWML through Acton. I guess there's always lots of work to be done, but seems a shame they couldn't have coordinated the possessions...

Virgin are running hourly Crewe-Manchester-Oxenholme voyagers via Bolton this weekend (late afternoon/evening ones going through to Birmingham) due to the additional closure at Wigan so it probably means there are not enough voyagers available to be able to do both diversions with adequate train length/frequency on the same day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S13227/2014/05/03/advanced

Good point - must be a block around Golborne Jn (the TPEs aren't running via Chat Moss either) otherwise they'd run Pendos via the Chat Moss like they did over Easter weekend.

Interesting hypothetical: if, due to a limited number of Voyagers, it were a choice between running diversions on Crewe-Preston or on London-Coventry/Nuneaton, which would win?

 

[dannypye9999]

Why don't scotrail ever cut the number of cars on sleepers to 11 or 12 cars so they can use other London terminals during engineering? Is it so necessary to have 15 cars on every train, I bet these trains don't even get 15 cars worth of people anyway.

 

[carriageline]

If they do go to other terminus stations, can still be maintained at WembICD?


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[LNW-GW Joint]

Good point - must be a block around Golborne Jn (the TPEs aren't running via Chat Moss either) otherwise they'd run Pendos via the Chat Moss like they did over Easter weekend.

The block appears to be at Wigan, so the Chat Moss diversion is no use.
Buses are running Warrington-Wigan-Preston.

 

[infobleep]

[DIGRESS]Maybe the anti-HS2 mob should look at this and realise this disruption would be a weekly occurrence for years to come if they got their wish to upgrade the WCML instead of HS2[/DIGRESS]

If that is the case one night argue that any railway line with no suitable diversions available should never be upgraded to support higher capacity as it will cost to many continuous weekends of disruption.

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[Geezertronic]

If that is the case one night argue that any railway line with no suitable diversions available should never be upgraded to support higher capacity as it will cost to many continuous weekends of disruption.

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Upgrading the whole line is considerably different from upgrading pinch points - been there, done that, and we all suffered the consequences. Yes there is disruption upgrading pinch points but not on a massive long term scale as seen before.

 

[sprinterguy]

Why don't scotrail ever cut the number of cars on sleepers to 11 or 12 cars so they can use other London terminals during engineering? Is it so necessary to have 15 cars on every train, I bet these trains don't even get 15 cars worth of people anyway.

Six sleeping cars for Inverness, four/three for Aberdeen and two/three for Fort William on the Highland Sleeper, plus two lounge and two seated cars out of Euston (A total of sixteen carriages, rather than fifteen: The Scottish sleepers operate as 8-car "half-sets"), seems to be pretty much in line with demand each time I use it (I have no personal experience of the Lowland sleeper). In fact, if it were possible, the Fort William portion in particular could probably do with more carriages to cater for demand at certain times of the year: Berth availability seems to disappear very quickly a lot of the time.

Assuming that one carriage is given over to first class use, the maximum that each 8-car rake can accomodate in sleeping accomodation is around 130.

 

[Nym]

They could run it from KGX as two sets of half sets in for paths flighted behind eachother?

 

[Drsatan]

They could run it from KGX as two sets of half sets in for paths flighted behind eachother?

Possibly, although each half set would need to depart from a separate platform.

 

[Bald Rick]

They could run it from KGX as two sets of half sets in for paths flighted behind eachother?

How dare you be practical!

Suspect (but don't know) that it is more difficult for the southbounds given their arrival time. May be more practical post Thameslink with a few platforms spare in the early morning.

 

[Philip Elliott]

I doubt the person you quoted would ever deny it would end the closures on both arteries of our railway BUT their point was that HS2 would nullify the problems of diversions and bustitution. Which it would. Easily. For those on the main WCML routes

No it won't. The WCML will have no access into Euston at least 2-4 days a year (outside of Christmas) every year. HS2 won't help any of the stations in Bucks, Herts or Northants.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

No it won't. The WCML will have no access into Euston at least 2-4 days a year (outside of Christmas) every year. HS2 won't help any of the stations in Bucks, Herts or Northants.

But with any luck we'll have Bletchley-Aylesbury-Marylebone, Watford Jn-Baker St and Watford-Old Oak-Crossrail by then?

 

[plastictaffy]

Shoulda been done as one long two week blockade as originally planned. Short term blockades such as this are a pain in the arse to diagram, they are a pain in the arse for traincrew, and they are a pain in the arse for the punters.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But with any luck we'll have Bletchley-Aylesbury-Marylebone, Watford Jn-Baker St and Watford-Old Oak-Crossrail by then?

Luck?? More like a bloody miracle!!

 

[aylesbury2]

Luck?? More like a bloody miracle!!

Indeed, there was a plan for it to happen in the late 90s but this never came to fruition, and I don't see how they'd be able to get it up and running on LUL's track...and I also doubt it would happen (if it ever did) until at least 2021 when Chiltern's franchise expires, if it's not renewed which is highly unlikely.

 

[Nym]

Watford Junction to Baker St is very very likely to be happening, as much as I know it's nearing the end of detailed design and is currently going through he detailed design assurance process.

And get what running on LUL's track? Services from MKC via Harrow OTH?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Luck?? More like a bloody miracle!!

by "then" I mean by HS2-opening time (2026-ish). I didn't mean in time for the current blockades.
Although doesn't the Croxley link start building very soon?
And I don't mean through trains necessarily, decent connections would do.

 

[plastictaffy]

by "then" I mean by HS2-opening time (2026-ish). I didn't mean in time for the current blockades.
Although doesn't the Croxley link start building very soon?
And I don't mean through trains necessarily, decent connections would do.

Obviously not in time for the blockade!! Even the Japanese couldn't manage that!!!

 

[Philip Elliott]

Shoulda been done as one long two week blockade as originally planned. Short term blockades such as this are a pain in the arse to diagram, they are a pain in the arse for traincrew, and they are a pain in the arse for the punters.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Luck?? More like a bloody miracle!!

The current plan use 12 less days of engineering with 3 days of 2-track railway instead of all line block. (It actually was never an all line block - one track was to be kept open for freight which greatly reduced the amount of work that could be done in a day).

 

[DarloRich]

Shoulda been done as one long two week blockade as originally planned. Short term blockades such as this are a pain in the arse to diagram, they are a pain in the arse for traincrew, and they are a pain in the arse for the punters.

The "stakeholders" didn't want that. They wanted the shorter blocks.

 

[plastictaffy]

The current plan use 12 less days of engineering with 3 days of 2-track railway instead of all line block. (It actually was never an all line block - one track was to be kept open for freight which greatly reduced the amount of work that could be done in a day).

As far as I'm concerned, as a TOC employee, it was a total block. And as far as the punters would be concerned, it would be a complete block - Intermodals aren't known for their comfortable seats!!!
How can it be a two track railway?? A lot of the work being done requires all lines blocked and the juice off. Watford South Junction coming out, Watford Powerbox coming out. Some overheads being rehung, and some track being relaid. So how can those things be done with a two track possession??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The "stakeholders" didn't want that. They wanted the shorter blocks.

True story!

 

[aylesbury2]

And get what running on LUL's track? Services from MKC via Harrow OTH?

Marylebone-Aylesbury-Bletchley/MKC will be if it goes via Amersham, a majority of the route is LUL's track. If it does go via High Wycombe, that entails that the entire stretch from Princes Risborough - Aylesbury is 40mph, single track.

 

[carriageline]

As far as I'm concerned, as a TOC employee, it was a total block. And as far as the punters would be concerned, it would be a complete block - Intermodals aren't known for their comfortable seats!!!
How can it be a two track railway?? A lot of the work being done requires all lines blocked and the juice off. Watford South Junction coming out, Watford Powerbox coming out. Some overheads being rehung, and some track being relaid. So how can those things be done with a two track possession??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


True story!

The box isn't going for a while yet (end of the year/next year?), and amendments behind made to the panel in the interim!

I do have a copy at work of what precisely is happening at each blockade, will have to have a look


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[Tetchytyke]

Shoulda been done as one long two week blockade as originally planned. Short term blockades such as this are a pain in the arse to diagram, they are a pain in the arse for traincrew, and they are a pain in the arse for the punters.

Not all of us are fortunate enough to be able to take two weeks holiday off in the middle of August. The long blockade was a ridiculous idea right from the word go.

Having to sit on a crappy little coach for two hours to get to work (having paid £411 a month for the privilege) is far more of a pain in the arse than having to stay at home on a weekend. My employer won't let me work from home- not that Hemel would be particularly convenient for my client base in central London- so I'd much rather have the line closed when I'd usually be sitting at home with a mug of tea looking at the narrow boats in the marina. That means the weekend.

The "stakeholders" need to get to work.

 

[oversteer]

The box isn't going for a while yet (end of the year/next year?), and amendments behind made to the panel in the interim!

I do have a copy at work of what precisely is happening at each blockade, will have to have a look


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Aren't they replacing the Orphanage Road bridge (just south of WFJ) too?

 

[The Planner]

Yes as the correct technical term for the bridge is I think "knackered".