Crosscountry franchise

[387star]

Any improvements planned between now and 2017 or whenever it is the franchise expires?

How likely is it Virgin will bid for it again?

I am also trying to work out how XC increased seating provision how many tables were lost as a result of the changes back in 2009?

 

[The Planner]

Would be surprised if Virgin would go for it.

 

[GadgetMan]

I am also trying to work out how XC increased seating provision how many tables were lost as a result of the changes back in 2009?

Can't speak for voyagers.

On Turbostars they got rid of Large luggage racks which used to be in the centre of carriages on Ex Central units and replaced them with useless narrow ones. On Ex MML units they got rid of the buffet and First class in middle carriages. They may have reduced legroom too, can't remember now.

 

[Qwerty133]

Can't speak for voyagers.

On Turbostars they got rid of Large luggage racks which used to be in the centre of carriages on Ex Central units and replaced them with useless narrow ones. On Ex MML units they got rid of the buffet and First class in middle carriages. They may have reduced legroom too, can't remember now.

They could've on the /1s (ex MML) but the others seem to have good legroom.
They also introduced first class onto the ex CT units reducing seats .

 

[dannypye9999]

XC removed vital services to Gatwick, Brighton and Swansea from North England, also under virgin the summer services to Newquay ran non stop between Bristol TM and Plymouth, now they call at all the main stops making journeys longer, aswell as removing most of the Paignton holidaymakers.

 

[HH]

XC removed vital services to Gatwick, Brighton and Swansea from North England, also under virgin the summer services to Newquay ran non stop between Bristol TM and Plymouth, now they call at all the main stops making journeys longer, aswell as removing most of the Paignton holidaymakers.

That was largely a DfT decision.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Any improvements planned between now and 2017 or whenever it is the franchise expires?

In a word, no.
DfT has yet to negotiate a direct award with Arriva for 2016-2019 as per the announced schedule.
On top of which there is no source of suitable extra rolling stock until the IEP and/or electrification programmes produce some cascades.
The most suitable stock would be Class 180s.

 

[Qwerty133]

In a word, no.
DfT has yet to negotiate a direct award with Arriva for 2016-2019 as per the announced schedule.
On top of which there is no source of suitable extra rolling stock until the IEP and/or electrification programmes produce some cascades.
The most suitable stock would be Class 180s.

Improvements doesn't have to be more or longer services. For example it could be sorting out the smell on voyagers; fitting power sockets and wifi to their turbostars; making wifi free on the other trains or improved catering.
However no is probably the correct answer, and as much as I normally think the railways should be in private hands, giving XC a 49 month extension as I believe the plan is, is a terrible idea.

 

[Mugby]

What is the space on Cl.170s which has roller shutters curving away from the gangway?

I've never seen it open or used for any purpose, if it was removed it may be possible to fit two or three single seats. As it is, it seems a complete waste of space.

 

[Oliver]

Their recent removal of a Quiet Coach was a remarkably retrograde step. Who thought that was a good idea?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Their recent removal of a Quiet Coach was a remarkably retrograde step. Who thought that was a good idea?

I agree but on trains like Voyagers with such limited capacity is it workable to have a 'Quiet Zone'. HSTs then different story.

 

[nuneatonmark]

In the next XC franchise I would like the Birmingham - Stansted/Leicester service transferred to East Midlands or any company that might give a toss about it. CrossCountry haven't done a thing to improve the service which is frequently overcrowded.

 

[The Planner]

What do you suggest they do?

 

[kieron]

How practical an answer would "use their HSTs more often" be?

 

[Haydn1971]

How practical an answer would "use their HSTs more often" be?

Others have pointed out that the HST's can't keep pace with timetables, but given so many XC Voyagers run late would that be noticed by the traveling public

 

[yorkie]

Others have pointed out that the HST's can't keep pace with timetables, but given so many XC Voyagers run late would that be noticed by the traveling public

The evidence suggests otherwise, as the adjustments for HSTs rarely make a material difference in timings, and I find we're still held outside stations like Sheffield for 5+ minutes!

 

[Haydn1971]

The most suitable stock would be Class 180s.

Hull Trains contract runs out in Dec 2016, which could sit well with the new ECML & TPE franchises depending on who wins and what they propose to do with SET services and the Man-Shf-Hull idea, but has the potential to release 4 180's, similarly the 5 FGW 180's could also be compromised by the introduction of SET but perhaps not till 2018-19 ish.

Grand Central is a tad more difficult in that they have contracts to run till 2026 but could be seen to be getting in the way of SET on ECML, so that could potentially lead to some cross leasing agreement to get them using SET beyond 2020 when the extra unit contract option will enevitably need exercising... That's a bunch of express Diesels all ready for somewhere just as the 222 fleet gets displaced from the MML

On that basis, could the 180 fleet head back to Northern to run a series of Semi-Fasts allowing 158's to fill in the gaps left by older DMU's ?

 

[dannypye9999]

In the next XC franchise I would like the Birmingham - Stansted/Leicester service transferred to East Midlands or any company that might give a toss about it. CrossCountry haven't done a thing to improve the service which is frequently overcrowded.

My opinion is the other way round, XC should be operate the Liverpool to Norwich route as its more "Cross Country" than "East Midlands" and then XC should give the Nottingham to Cardiff route for ATW to operate.

 

[Blindtraveler]

hmmm, XC, Improvements, how long you got? For starters, rip the guts out the voyagers and refit internally with better use of space, oh and some better toilets with pipes etc moved away from Air Con. Order a new fleat of something for mid distance work with allocations to XC, EMT, TPE, Northern, FGW and Scotrail and improve timekeeping and catering.↲

 

[swt_passenger]

On that basis, could the 180 fleet head back to Northern to run a series of Semi-Fasts allowing 158's to fill in the gaps left by older DMU's ?

Any 'spare' 180s are aready earmarked for GC, as mentioned in various GC related threads.

 

[Tomnick]

My opinion is the other way round, XC should be operate the Liverpool to Norwich route as its more "Cross Country" than "East Midlands" and then XC should give the Nottingham to Cardiff route for ATW to operate.

We've been here before, but the lack of a traincrew depot at Nottingham - inevitably the natural 'hub' of the route - is just one obstacle. It shows the pitfalls of the process of trying to fit everything into nice tidy boxes rather than considering what's practical operationally and what demand exists. As always, would the (minimal) benefits of transferring either route outweigh the costs? Probably not.

 

[Qwerty133]

In the next XC franchise I would like the Birmingham - Stansted/Leicester service transferred to East Midlands or any company that might give a toss about it. CrossCountry haven't done a thing to improve the service which is frequently overcrowded.

Please LM and not EMT. Would work better with stock and crew as well.

 

[3141]

Improvements doesn't have to be more or longer services. For example it could be sorting out the smell on voyagers; fitting power sockets and wifi to their turbostars; making wifi free on the other trains or improved catering.

When many passengers have to stand, extra capacity would be much higher up their priority list than sockets and wi fi.

 

[Aictos]

Getting rid of 2 car Class 170s from the Birmingham to Stansteds and instead running more 3 car Class 170s on a half hourly service, the 2 car sets can go elsewhere, the half hourly frequency would be served by extending the Leicester terminators to Stansted.

Also have later services to Peterborough/Leicester/Birmingham as the current last direct service to these stations is 20:27 which is far too early, last service ought to be 22:27 and introduce a earlier morning service like a 04:22 from Birmingham which would give a 07:39 arrival into Stansted.

The Norwich to Liverpool service should be kept as a direct service BUT perhaps operated as a joint service between Greater Anglia and TPE with Greater Anglia working Nottingham to Norwich only/TPE working Liverpool to Nottingham only as this would keep it as a direct service but might be better operationally with EMT depots west of Nottingham transferring to TPE.

 

[Tomnick]

Getting rid of 2 car Class 170s from the Birmingham to Stansteds and instead running more 3 car Class 170s on a half hourly service, the 2 car sets can go elsewhere, the half hourly frequency would be served by extending the Leicester terminators to Stansted.

As much as I agree that overcrowding is a problem on the route, where could sufficient 3 car units be released from without causing overcrowding elsewhere? Would a half hourly service, even if some were 2 car sets, alleviate the overcrowding somewhat?

Also have later services to Peterborough/Leicester/Birmingham as the current last direct service to these stations is 20:27 which is far too early, last service ought to be 22:27 and introduce a earlier morning service like a 04:22 from Birmingham which would give a 07:39 arrival into Stansted.

Agreed - it does all seem to finish a bit early east of Leicester.

The Norwich to Liverpool service should be kept as a direct service BUT perhaps operated as a joint service between Greater Anglia and TPE with Greater Anglia working Nottingham to Norwich only/TPE working Liverpool to Nottingham only as this would keep it as a direct service but might be better operationally with EMT depots west of Nottingham transferring to TPE.

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Neither GA nor TPE have traincrew at Nottingham, which is where - inevitably - the majority of traincrew for the route are needed.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Notwithstanding the fact that DfT / XC probably aren't interested, could additional carriages be built to strengthen all XC Turbostars to three coaches? And could (dizzy with excitement) a four car 170 ever work?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

XC removed vital services to Gatwick, Brighton and Swansea from North England, also under virgin the summer services to Newquay ran non stop between Bristol TM and Plymouth, now they call at all the main stops making journeys longer, aswell as removing most of the Paignton holidaymakers.

We've been Brighton an almost infinite number of times before, but Swansea went over decade ago with the post-Operation Princess purges, a good four years or more before Arriva got their hands on it.

Granted the stopping patterns are now different down in the South West, but that's a consequence of a clockface timetable: such development did secure a core set of services on the network, which probably made it easier to both use and operate.

 

[Qwerty133]

As much as I agree that overcrowding is a problem on the route, where could sufficient 3 car units be released from without causing overcrowding elsewhere? Would a half hourly service, even if some were 2 car sets, alleviate the overcrowding somewhat?

Agreed - it does all seem to finish a bit early east of Leicester.


Sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Neither GA nor TPE have traincrew at Nottingham, which is where - inevitably - the majority of traincrew for the route are needed.

If it has to be 170s they'd have to come from Scotrail, however it may be possible to swap the /5s with the /6s at London Midland in a few years, after chase line electrification, or if LM again the LO 172s.
If other 3 coach trains would be appropriate, it may be possible to swap the 27 170s for 25 185s from TPE, but only if the chiltern cascade doesn't go ahead.
A third option could be swapping the 170s with the 175s, which although would leave two coach units they'd be 2 more 3 coach units and if wales needed a replacement for the 2 lost coaches a 158 from SWT shouldn't be too hard to make available.
The final option would be 27 of the 159s, while this would leave a micro fleet in the south, SWT also have 158s which are very simular so shouldn't cause any problems. It'd also cause a shortage of stock in the south, but they don't seem to be very strechted with DMUs at SWT and can often loan DMUs out elsewhere, so may not cause too much overcrowding. I'm also not sure about how much the 10MPH lower top speed would be an issue, as I don't really know the line east of Leicester.
The above is all based on the service staying hourly east of Leicester, but especially if the 185 option is chosen, it should be possible to increase it to half hourly following further electrification.

 

[swt_passenger]

... And could (dizzy with excitement) a four car 170 ever work?

Definitely - there are 4 car 171s already - they are basically just 170s with changed couplings.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The final option would be 27 of the 159s, while this would leave a micro fleet in the south, SWT also have 158s which are very simular so shouldn't cause any problems.

You're having a laugh right? The Waterloo to Salisbury/Exeter/Bristol service needs nearly all the 159s and some of the 158s.

 

[Mugby]

Does anyone know what should be rostered for the Nottm - Cardiff service?

Is it 2car or 3car 170s? Very often a 2car turns up and proves to be totally inadequate.