ECML Disruption - Saturday 27th December

[Andyh82]

Or go to Marylebone, get a train to Birmingham Moor St, walk to New St and get an onward train from there. National rail shows two trains an hour, on time until further nortce.

Are Chiltern and Crosscountry accepting East Coast tickets?

 

[21C101]

A friend made it down but has now been stuck on Finsbury Park for 45 minutes unable to leave the station.

Quelle surprise?

10.24 finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
10.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 9 mins late
10.54 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 31 mins late (now shown as "delayed)
11.09 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.24 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 6 mins late

So roughly a one hour gap in services to Moorgate between 10.48 and 11.45

 

[ainsworth74]

How are Hull Trains coping during all of this?

 

[Senex]

There seems to be a failure on three counts:-

(1) - The Incident itself
(2) - How it's being managed
(3) - Communication

Aren't we so used to all of those now, at every major incident/shutdown?

 

[ushawk]

A friend made it down but has now been stuck on Finsbury Park for 45 minutes unable to leave the station.

That'll be because there are too many people outside the station, as soon as you open a door to start letting people out, you will just get people trying to force their way in, not to mention - there is no way out because of the amount of people.

Might be time to call in the police for crowd control. May also be time to attempt to get some buses in at Stevenage and Finsbury Park.

 

[amcluesent]

Aren't we so used to all of those now, at every major incident/shutdown?

I just hope lessons are learned!

 

[21C101]

That'll be because there are too many people outside the station, as soon as you open a door to start letting people out, you will just get people trying to force their way in, not to mention - there is no way out because of the amount of people.

It might also be something to do with a one hour gap in services to Moorgate which means they cant get incoming pax cross platform out of the Station.

10.24 finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
10.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 9 mins late
10.54 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 31 mins late (now shown as "delayed)
11.09 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.24 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 6 mins late

So roughly a one hour gap in services from Finsbury Park to Moorgate between 10.48 and 11.45

 

[Andyh82]

Quelle surprise?

10.24 finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
10.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 9 mins late
10.54 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 31 mins late (now shown as "delayed)
11.09 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.24 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 6 mins late

So roughly a one hour gap in services to Moorgate between 10.48 and 11.45

Due to the station being closed, East coast services are currently queued up on the southbound on approach. The service from Newcastle has been sat at Alexandra Palace for 50 mins. Due to this, there isn't hardly any trains ready to return northbound. The rail equivalent of gridlock I suppose.

 

[mildertduck]

For those people waiting at Finsbury Park, Archway (Northern Line) and Stamford Hill (Greater Anglia) are both 30 minutes walk away, which might be quicker than standing in a queue for a bus or a tube!

 

[ushawk]

It might also be something to do with a one hour gap in services to Moorgate which means they cant get incoming pax cross platform out of the Station.

10.24 finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
10.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 9 mins late
10.54 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 31 mins late (now shown as "delayed)
11.09 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.24 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - cancelled
11.39 Finsbury Park to Moorgate - 6 mins late

So roughly a one hour gap in services from Finsbury Park to Moorgate between 10.48 and 11.45

That isnt helping, but the easiest way to get them out would be via the tube......which the cant access due to the amount of people trying to get in the station. To get anything moving, the station needs clearing first, then bring more trains in - empty them and then start filling them up.

 

[Rich McLean]

Finsbury Park is closed, but will re-open once platforms are cleared, and close again when full etc etc.

 

[Aictos]

Passengers are advised not to travel today due to the disruption, their tickets will be valid tomorrow or Monday - indeed I wouldn't even attempt traveling today.

East Coast Ticket Acceptance is as follows:

Great Northern services between Finsbury Park and Moorgate

Thameslink services Luton and London St Pancras International

Abellio Greater Anglia between Ely / Cambridge to London Liverpool Street

Arriva Cross Country between Peterborough Ely and Cambridge

London Underground) and Transport for London bus services between King's Cross and Finsbury Park. Please use the Victoria and Piccadilly Line or bus 259 to/from York Way at the east side of King's Cross station to Seven Sisters Road at Finsbury Park.

Due to Engineering work on the Midland Main Line and West Coast Main Line, East Coast customers MAY NOT use East Midlands Trains between Sheffield and London St Pancras or Virgin Trains between London and Scotland. East Coast Tickets are NOT VALID on any services to or from London St Pancras or London Euston.

 

[21C101]

That isnt helping, but the easiest way to get them out would be via the tube......which the cant access due to the amount of people trying to get in the station. To get anything moving, the station needs clearing first, then bring more trains in - empty them and then start filling them up.

I disagree, the easiest way to get them out is cross platform onto a six car class 313 train to Moorgate and not having to use any subways or steps at Finsbury, they can then transfer cross platform onto the Vic line at Highbury (again no steps) or go onto Moorgate and access the Northern Circle, H&C & Met.

You would need to arrange things so that the Hertford line runs as a segregated line from other ECML traffic (so dont get caught behind mainline trains queueing to terminate and extras run to from Moorgate as far as the turnback at Bowes Park.

 

[amcluesent]

Trains in and out of London Paddington train station are subject to cancellations and delays due to overrunning engineering works

No service from Kings Cross or Euston

Leicestershire Police say people should avoid A1 where large vehicles are stuck as snow causes disruption in Midlands and the north

27th Dec - when Britain came to a standstill!

Patrick McLoughlin, Secretary of State for Transport, must be called to account

 

[Rich McLean]

Are EMT not accepting Any permitted tickets for stations north of Leeds unless its a booked train?

Would not be at all surprised if this is the case

 

[ushawk]

I disagree, the easiest way to get them out is cross platform onto a six car class 313 train to Moorgate and not having to use any subways or steps at Finsbury

You would need to arrange things so that the Hertford line runs as a segregated line from other ECML traffic and extras run to from Moorgate as far as the turnback at Bowes Park.

The 313 will not have enough space to cope. You have more chance on 2 separate tube lines with a service every few minutes with more coaches - simple as that. The Moorgate line should run additionally though, but you will then further have a crowded station as pax will just travel to Moorgate to start journeys, which will then crowd up the platforms meaning more people will be held outside.

This chaos would have happened wherever trains would be terminated, whether it Peterborough, Stevenage or Finsbury Park. Its the plan to deal with it which needs questioning - why werent any contingency plans drawn up to deal with this in case ? That includes crowd control measures and buses on standby for locations on the South ECML.

 

[Retorus]

Trains in and out of London Paddington train station are subject to cancellations and delays due to overrunning engineering works

No service from Kings Cross or Euston

Leicestershire Police say people should avoid A1 where large vehicles are stuck as snow causes disruption in Midlands and the north

27th Dec - when Britain came to a standstill!

Patrick McLoughlin, Secretary of State for Transport, must be called to account

Maybe you should write an angry letter.

 

[ushawk]

Trains in and out of London Paddington train station are subject to cancellations and delays due to overrunning engineering works

No service from Kings Cross or Euston

Leicestershire Police say people should avoid A1 where large vehicles are stuck as snow causes disruption in Midlands and the north

27th Dec - when Britain came to a standstill!

Patrick McLoughlin, Secretary of State for Transport, must be called to account

The South, South West, Scotland, Wales and most of the North of England - oh and most other major roads are coping fine - Britain isnt at a standstill at all.

 

[21C101]

The 313 will not have enough space to cope. You have more chance on 2 separate tube lines with a service every few minutes with more coaches - simple as that. The Moorgate line should run additionally though, but you will then further have a crowded station as pax will just travel to Moorgate to start journeys, which will then crowd up the platforms meaning more people will be held outside.

This chaos would have happened wherever trains would be terminated, whether it Peterborough, Stevenage or Finsbury Park. Its the plan to deal with it which needs questioning - why werent any contingency plans drawn up to deal with this in case ? That includes crowd control measures and buses on standby for locations on the South ECML.

The flaw in your plan is that all there is to access the tube at Finsbury is a narrow staircase and Subway, there is the capacity on the tube but no way to get pax down there in significant numbers.

If eight six car class 313s an hour were running, making use of the Turnback and Bowes Park, it would soon hoover up the passengers, many of which would change and H&I onto the Vic and not go onto Moorgate.

Impossible to arrange that at 24 hours notice but if it has been planned as a contingency (in case the works overran) over the last few weeks it would be quite practical I would have thought.

 

[ushawk]

The flaw in your plan is that all there is to access the tube at Finsbury is a narrow staircase and Subway, there is the capacity on the tube but no way to get pax down there in significant numbers.

If eight six car class 313s an hour were running, making use of the Turnback and Bowes Park, it would soon hoover up the passengers, many of which would change and H&I onto the Vic and not go onto Moorgate.

Impossible to arrange that at 24 hours notice but if it has been planned as a contingency (in case the works overran) over the last few weeks it would be quite practical I would have thought.

Which is why the station and route to the tube would have to be clear first, hence why a plan of action should have been drawn up in advance to prepare in case this was to happen. A contingency plan into Moorgate should have also been included as this, along with the tube, would have dealt with issues better. Of course at 24 hours notice, its hard to arrange alternatives, so that is why plans should have been sorted well in advance of the works - yes, it would take more time and money - but it would have resulted in less chaos.

 

[ainsworth74]

Are EMT not accepting Any permitted tickets for stations north of Leeds unless its a booked train?

Can they even do that?

Patrick McLoughlin, Secretary of State for Transport, must be called to account

Called to account for what? Not personally going down to the work site and shouting at Network Rail to hurry up? Not personally supervising the arrangements for today? Not personally arranging what engineering work will be carried out and when it will be done?

What, exactly, is he being called to account for?

I've seen people saying that Mark Carne should resign or that he and others should give back their bonus/salary (to who?). But I'm unclear on why any of this is appropriate? Does anyone know what they did or did not do that caused today's problems? If there was nothing they could do (for all we know the over-run was caused by a mechanical breakdown) why should they lose their jobs or income?

I'm honestly struggling to understand the people who are seemingly baying for blood before anyone has even had a chance to work out what went wrong!

 

[Hadders]

I'm currently stuck on a 4 coach 317 at Potters Bar waiting for congestion at Fisbury Park to clear.

Finsbury is used to dealing with thousands of commuters every day but they generally know where they're going. Part of the issue here is 'tourists' not knowing where to go etc.

At Stevenage I had to ask people to move down the aisle so more people could get on, some thought you could only stand in the doorway.

 

[Richard1960]

Can they even do that?



Called to account for what? Not personally going down to the work site and shouting at Network Rail to hurry up? Not personally supervising the arrangements for today? Not personally arranging what engineering work will be carried out and when it will be done?

What, exactly, is he being called to account for?

I've seen people saying that Mark Carne should resign or that he and others should give back their bonus/salary (to who?). But I'm unclear on why any of this is appropriate? Does anyone know what they did or did not do that caused today's problems? If there was nothing they could do (for all we know the over-run was caused by a mechanical breakdown) why should they lose their jobs or income?

I'm honestly struggling to understand the people who are seemingly baying for blood before anyone has even had a chance to work out what went wrong!

I have a feeling the parliamentary seclect comittee for transport will be looking into this,they had the chair on the radio this morning saying as much.

Its a pity network rail have not said why the overun? i am sure people may not have been so cross then.

The thing is here communication which as is usual for most things in the uk is woeful sadly.

Thankful i am at work today so no need to travel.phew.

 

[Aictos]

I'm currently stuck on a 4 coach 317 at Potters Bar waiting for congestion at Fisbury Park to clear.

Finsbury is used to dealing with thousands of commuters every day but they generally know where they're going. Part of the issue here is 'tourists' not knowing where to go etc.

At Stevenage I had to ask people to move down the aisle so more people could get on, some thought you could only stand in the doorway.

Yep, 2P41 in Platform 1 East Coast are advising passengers not to travel unless absolutely necessary, hope you get moving soon but not looking good

 

[ainsworth74]

I have a feeling the parliamentary seclect comittee for transport will be looking into this,they had the chair on the radio this morning saying as much.

I would hope they will and the Chair of that committee is normally pretty good at giving people a roasting!

Its a pity network rail have not said why the overun? i am sure people may not have been so cross then.

Have the people who know what's caused (if anyone does yet) had time to communicate it to the people who are responsible for releasing information to the public? Network Rail are normally very good at getting pictures and information out of what exactly has gone wrong precisely because it does seem to help calm people down when they can see what the problem is.

 

[Hadders]

I've bailed out at Potters Bar and am waiting for a lift to Enfield Town! God knows how I'm going to get home tonight.

The train I've got off is still in platform 1 with an East Coast HST waiting in platform 2.

 

[ExRes]

Its a pity network rail have not said why the overun? i am sure people may not have been so cross then.

What difference would that make though, 99% of people aren't the slightest bit interested in the cause they just want everything to return to normal instantly or they'll stamp their feet

 

[21C101]

Which is why the station and route to the tube would have to be clear first, hence why a plan of action should have been drawn up in advance to prepare in case this was to happen. A contingency plan into Moorgate should have also been included as this, along with the tube, would have dealt with issues better. Of course at 24 hours notice, its hard to arrange alternatives, so that is why plans should have been sorted well in advance of the works - yes, it would take more time and money - but it would have resulted in less chaos.

Personally I would be inclined to run southbound vic and picc services fast through finsbury park and make all incoming pax get on a train to Moorgate (and access the vic line via Highbury and Islington).

Outbound pax could use the tube to Finsbury and have space to walk onto the main line platforms.

The problem is that the Finsbury main line platforms all disgorge into the same narrow subway so there is not really room for large numbers both entering and exiting at the same time, especially as lots will be carrying heavy luggage.

Similarly the pic and vic southbound/northbound use the same staircases down so limited capacity. No escalators or lifts in either main line or underground. People dragging luggage down all those stairs is going to throttle things immensely.

 

[matacaster]

Note to NR.

When planning engineering work, make sure you ALWAYS have at least one viable route NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, WEST to /from London, from a mainline station.

 

[mbonwick]

Its a pity network rail have not said why the overun? i am sure people may not have been so cross then.

Problems with OHLE isolation have been touted as the reason over at WNXX.