Burton-on-Trent station.

[Mugby]

It seems to me that Burton station with it's island platform is the achilles heel of the high speed line from Derby to Birmingham. The speed of 60mph (?) through the platforms is quite some reduction from 125 followed by the necessity to recover once clear. The braking begins just after Clay Mills on the Down line and before Branston on the Up.

There seems to be scope for easing the reverse curves at the Derby end but not at the Birmingham end due to the amount of pointwork between the platform end and Leicester Junction.

Could it be done? For non-stop expresses would there be any appreciable savings in time and would it be beneficial to reduce braking requirements?

Any thoughts?

 

[Senex]

It seems to me that Burton station with it's island platform is the achilles heel of the high speed line from Derby to Birmingham. The speed of 60mph (?) through the platforms is quite some reduction from 125 followed by the necessity to recover once clear. The braking begins just after Clay Mills on the Down line and before Branston on the Up.

There seems to be scope for easing the reverse curves at the Derby end but not at the Birmingham end due to the amount of pointwork between the platform end and Leicester Junction.

Could it be done? For non-stop expresses would there be any appreciable savings in time and would it be beneficial to reduce braking requirements?

Any thoughts?

It's a pretty disastrous layout and there have been proposals at various times to do something about it. The present 50 is already a very significant improvement on the 30 of some years ago. The simplest option is to use the space of the third and fourth tracks, the more expensive to construct a new station with side platforms. There is as you assume a significant cost in running time from the present restriction, though with the very high acceleration of the Voyagers nothing like as serious as once it was. But there is also a fuel cost and a wear-and-tear cost in coming right down from line speed and then having to get back up -- a smooth speed profile is not only the most economic but also the most comfortable for the passengers.

 

[syorksdeano]

Speaking of Burton on Trent, I know it's managed by East Midlands Trains but to East Midlands actually call there?

 

[The Planner]

It also depends on if you could utilise the benefits, you could well save a minute but it may not be of use if you have to add it back somewhere else.

 

[Minilad]

On the up the Voyager service you are normally catching up the previous Nottingham by Burton anyway so you would start to be running on restrictive aspects anyway. So it's not such a loss to timings.

 

[MarkyT]

It seems to me that Burton station with it's island platform is the achilles heel of the high speed line from Derby to Birmingham. The speed of 60mph (?) through the platforms is quite some reduction from 125 followed by the necessity to recover once clear. The braking begins just after Clay Mills on the Down line and before Branston on the Up.

There seems to be scope for easing the reverse curves at the Derby end but not at the Birmingham end due to the amount of pointwork between the platform end and Leicester Junction.

Could it be done? For non-stop expresses would there be any appreciable savings in time and would it be beneficial to reduce braking requirements?

Any thoughts?

An illustration of the problem . . .
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Burton-on-Trent_railway_station_MMB_03_220020.jpg

I think that's looking south.

One way to improve through speed would be to replace the island by two new side platforms on the loops (perhaps shifted closer to the centre to make room - i.e build the new platforms on top of today's loop lines facing onto the outsides of the existing up and down mains). Then demolish the island and straighten out the main lines through the centre. Don't know if that would work with the existing station overbridge or whether that also would need reconstruction.

 

[Mugby]

An illustration of the problem . . .
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Burton-on-Trent_railway_station_MMB_03_220020.jpg

I think that's looking south.

One way to improve through speed would be to replace the island by two new side platforms on the loops (perhaps shifted closer to the centre to make room - i.e build the new platforms on top of today's loop lines facing onto the outsides of the existing up and down mains). Then demolish the island and straighten out the main lines through the centre. Don't know if that would work with the existing station overbridge or whether that also would need reconstruction.

Thanks for the link, that long lens view doesn't do the track any favours does it!

Actually, putting platforms on the loops and installing high speed crossovers at each end so that non stop expresses could overtake stoppers might be a good idea, but as you say, it's just the extra charge of managing two platforms instead of one.

 

[thenorthern]

Speaking of Burton on Trent, I know it's managed by East Midlands Trains but to East Midlands actually call there?

At present no although until 2008 there were 2 trains per day from London which terminated at Burton-on-Trent.

It seems to me that Burton station with it's island platform is the achilles heel of the high speed line from Derby to Birmingham. The speed of 60mph (?) through the platforms is quite some reduction from 125 followed by the necessity to recover once clear. The braking begins just after Clay Mills on the Down line and before Branston on the Up.

There seems to be scope for easing the reverse curves at the Derby end but not at the Birmingham end due to the amount of pointwork between the platform end and Leicester Junction.

Could it be done? For non-stop expresses would there be any appreciable savings in time and would it be beneficial to reduce braking requirements?

Any thoughts?

There are quite a few goods trains which are overtaken in Burton using the lines which I think I think could affect it.

Realistically though Burton-on-Trent station as a whole I would say is in need of a complete rebuild.

 

[TheNewNo2]

Nice to see someone liked my photo!

Burton on Trent station is generally pretty disastrous, let alone the layout. I changed there twice, regretted it. Long dark bridge, lack of decent PIS, general lack of seats...

 

[thenorthern]

Nice to see someone liked my photo!

Burton on Trent station is generally pretty disastrous, let alone the layout. I changed there twice, regretted it. Long dark bridge, lack of decent PIS, general lack of seats...

It was quite a nice station before but it was extensively rebuilt in 1971.

There was a large internal freight system in Burton for the bass railways although that all closed in 1967.

 

[derbyman30]

I used to live in Burton-upon-Trent many years ago and used the station late last year for the first time since 2005.

Granted, it was bad back then, but it definitely needs a complete revamp. It was a lovely Victorian station prior to 1971 and a definite shame modernisation got in the way of history.

 

[Mugby]

I believe it's had a sort of revamp within the last year or so but the effect has been so minimal you'd be hard put to spot any difference.

 

[thenorthern]

There has been talk of the Leicester to Burton via Coalville line reopening which may mean the station could be modified although I can't ever see that happening.

Burton station platform layout has changed little as far as I am aware since it was opened on the current site in 1883, the only thing that has changed is there used to be a bay platform at the end of the island platform.

 

[edwin_m]

There has been talk of the Leicester to Burton via Coalville line reopening which may mean the station could be modified although I can't ever see that happening.

Burton station platform layout has changed little as far as I am aware since it was opened on the current site in 1883, the only thing that has changed is there used to be a bay platform at the end of the island platform.

This is presumably the area beyond the buildings which is now a flower (or weed) bed. Were there ever any bays at the Derby end under the bridge? Must have been pretty horrible with steam traction if there were.

 

[Kettledrum]

Speaking of Burton on Trent, I know it's managed by East Midlands Trains but to East Midlands actually call there?

No - East Midlands trains do not call there. I have a theory that this makes the car parking charges even more expensive, as they can set them at excessive levels, knowing that their own customer satisfaction will be completely unaffected - it's the passengers for X country trains that are affected and have to pay through the nose.

The situation at Burton is an example of where the fragmentation of the rail industry in this way is benefitting no-one. There's no competition, and no incentive for improving the services from either Network Rail, X County trains or East Midlands trains.

 

[thenorthern]

This is presumably the area beyond the buildings which is now a flower (or weed) bed. Were there ever any bays at the Derby end under the bridge? Must have been pretty horrible with steam traction if there were.

There might of been one, I know there was once a Tutbury to Burton train that terminated there in the LMS days which I would expect used a bay platform at Burton.

No - East Midlands trains do not call there. I have a theory that this makes the car parking charges even more expensive, as they can set them at excessive levels, knowing that their own customer satisfaction will be completely unaffected - it's the passengers for X country trains that are affected and have to pay through the nose.

Its not just Burton, East Midlands Trains seem to like high prices for parking at most their stations.

 

[RichmondCommu]

There might of been one, I know there was once a Tutbury to Burton train that terminated there in the LMS days which I would expect used a bay platform at Burton.



Its not just Burton, East Midlands Trains seem to like high prices for parking at most their stations.

According to a Midland Railway track plan of 1915 there was a bay platform at either end of the station.

 

[thenorthern]

According to a Midland Railway track plan of 1915 there was a bay platform at either end of the station.

That makes sense.

In those days there were 3 station in what is now Burton upon Trent now there is only one.

 

[70014IronDuke]

No - East Midlands trains do not call there. I have a theory that this makes the car parking charges even more expensive, as they can set them at excessive levels, knowing that their own customer satisfaction will be completely unaffected - it's the passengers for X country trains that are affected and have to pay through the nose.

The situation at Burton is an example of where the fragmentation of the rail industry in this way is benefitting no-one. There's no competition, and no incentive for improving the services from either Network Rail, X County trains or East Midlands trains.

Sadly, you make, potentially, a very important point.

But surely there should be a process for XC to 'bid' for taking over the station. After all, it was awarded to EMT originally (surely) because they, or their predecssor (Central?) were the main user - I suppose when Nottingham - Cardiff services were under Central?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There has been talk of the Leicester to Burton via Coalville line reopening which may mean the station could be modified although I can't ever see that happening.
.....

I thought moves to reopen Leicester - Burton fizzled out a decade or more ago?

It really is a shame, I think. The population from Coalville towards Leicester is really quite substantial, and a half hourly service into Leicester would be needed, I should think. But critical land has been sold off, I believe.

 

[thenorthern]

I thought moves to reopen Leicester - Burton fizzled out a decade or more ago?

It really is a shame, I think. The population from Coalville towards Leicester is really quite substantial, and a half hourly service into Leicester would be needed, I should think. But critical land has been sold off, I believe.

The junction into Leicester is the main problem I think which prevents it from reopening as the northern chord of the triangular junction has been built on. It still does pop up occasionally although I can't see it happening soon.

The problem as well is Burton station would need a re-build and Burton itself I don't think is large enough to justify the service.

 

[Senex]

The junction into Leicester is the main problem I think which prevents it from reopening as the northern chord of the triangular junction has been built on.

Another example of the British Railways Property Board duly following its mandate to sell off as much disused land as possible and no strategic body at national level identifying which rights of way, even if not of immediate interest, really should have been kept for possible future use? (Same problem at the other end of the same line, where the site of the Knighton North Curve was built over pretty quickly and industrial premises would have to be bought back if there were ever to be a re-opening without reversal.)

 

[ag51ruk]

Sadly, you make, potentially, a very important point.

But surely there should be a process for XC to 'bid' for taking over the station. After all, it was awarded to EMT originally (surely) because they, or their predecssor (Central?) were the main user - I suppose when Nottingham - Cardiff services were under Central?

Cross Country dont operate any stations (or even have any platform staff as far as I know) so running one would potentially be a big logistical exercise - they would have to put all the processes and systems in place that the other TOCs already have

What Burton could really do with is a part time gardener to sort out the overgrown landscaping on the platform

 

[swt_passenger]

But surely there should be a process for XC to 'bid' for taking over the station.

No, there shouldn't really. This problem is regularly discussed in these forums, but it was decided long ago by DfT that as a matter of policy the XC franchise does not run any stations, because the small subset of LM and EMT managed stations it uses are spread too far apart...

 

[70014IronDuke]

Cross Country dont operate any stations (or even have any platform staff as far as I know) so running one would potentially be a big logistical exercise - they would have to put all the processes and systems in place that the other TOCs already have
...

Ah, yes, i see. Thanks to you and SWT - I hadn't realised this. Funny ol situation in one way.

 

[thenorthern]

There has been talk in the past of extending the Cross City Line through to Burton-on-Trent although given that Burton already has 2 semi-fast trains per hour and 1 fast ever 2 hours to Birmingham I can't see this proposal ever being financially justified.

In an ideal world though a Burton-on-Trent south station in the Branston area of the town and possibly a Burton-on-Trent north station near the Pirelli Stadium I reckon could get a fair number of passengers but I doubt they would ever be built.

 

[derbyman30]

There might of been one, I know there was once a Tutbury to Burton train that terminated there in the LMS days which I would expect used a bay platform at Burton.



Its not just Burton, East Midlands Trains seem to like high prices for parking at most their stations.

Ah, the good old Tutbury Jenny. I used to walk along the former line in my childhood from Stretton through to Rolleston on Dove.

It's a shame Princess Way now runs along the route south to the former Stretton and Claymills station as I'd imagine it'd help with football traffic to Pirelli Stadium.

When I used to live in Burton on Trent there was often talk of re-opening the Ivanhoe Line to passengers again but I'm sure it was always mooted as cost prohibitive.