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Incident near Bethnal Green Jan 20th
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First report was at 16:17 and yet "This is expected to continue until 19:00." so must be something serious.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/118340.aspx
https://twitter.com/Jackie_Travel/status/689856725273464838
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/118340.aspx
https://twitter.com/Jackie_Travel/status/689856725273464838
Kite159
Veteran Member
Trains turning around at Stratford?
I can only imagine how busy the central line will be tonight between Liverpool Street & Stratford, nasty
DasLunatic
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How? The lines from Bethnal Green to Stratford are on a viaduct, aren't they?
What do you mean how? The lines cross rivers/canals but that doesn't make access impossible?
Just looking at a twitter exchange between someone actually on the incident set who for two hours wasn't aware of what was happening, this #EmergencyServices lark needs to change ASAP!
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It does. For AGA at least this is the first major test of the new "cannot mention fatality at all" policy that has been rolled out nationwide. Looks like it has gone down like a lead balloon.
As to the incident. Really could not have happened in a worse place at a worse time.
tsr
Established Member
There was a previous fatality incident where all the internal emails to frontline employees at another TOC also only said "emergency services dealing with an incident" too, because they basically copied and pasted from NRE and Tyrell. This made everybody very annoyed because nobody knew if it was a car on the track / person hit by train / person electrocuted / metal burglary etc. etc. etc. (due to the location it could have been any of those things), or any time frames for dealing with it, or anything else for that matter. This sort of dumbing-down of information leads to a huge amount of passenger anger and unnecessary questions which could be dramatically reduced. Yes, it is good that those in a very poor state of mental health are protected, but frankly the money spent on the man-hours lost due to confusion would be better directed to mental health services and perhaps employing people/engaging volunteers to look out for distressed people at known hotspots.
Good luck getting an 86 bus to Brentwood, when the service terminates at Romford :roll: They can get a 498 bus from Romford to Brentwood though
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Good luck getting an 86 bus to Brentwood, when the service terminates at Romford :roll: They can get a 498 bus from Romford to Brentwood though
And the 25 doesn't go east of Ilford, somebody should be held accountable for such appalling misinformation.
As explained to me it was decided based on customer feedback and on advice from BTP & Samaritans along with discussions between TOCs and ATOC, so basically most of the industry.
Logic behind it is that announcing a person hit by a train (or similar) upsets those involved on the incident train and others and could also encourage people in a similar mental place to jump under a train copycat style.
Personally I don't buy it. Tonight passengers out of LST have been going at C2C, TfL and AGA all for not actually announcing what had happened and I can't see how it will stop people jumping in-front of trains. Its not exactly secret its a quick and easy way of doing it.
I've not heard of any reason for not announcing the location or incident other than to prevent "copycat" incidents. We had a thread along these lines not too long ago.
TfL started it by saying "person on the track" whilst the incident is ongoing, and "customer incident" afterwards. Person on the track always means a person under train (trespasser is advertised as such, for instance). I believe NR terminology is "emergency services dealing with an incident" which I'm guessing could mean a number of incidents.
TfL started it by saying "person on the track" whilst the incident is ongoing, and "customer incident" afterwards. Person on the track always means a person under train (trespasser is advertised as such, for instance). I believe NR terminology is "emergency services dealing with an incident" which I'm guessing could mean a number of incidents.
This relates to the other thread I started about Twitter and social media. What I learn here is that some well meaning people in the Samaritans, etc, have brought about a ludicrous situation where the public is not being informed properly.
BTW I don't think this is happening elsewhere. 'Person hit by train' is still that on other lines.
Got caught up in this evening, luckily managed to avoid the worst of the dalays. That said it pretty obvious what the problem was and some AGA staff were telling at as it was (and no I'm not going to say where because they were simply doing their best to keep their passengers informed). Whilst I can see both sides of the argument surely being honest with those that pay considerable sums of money to travel with you is least an operator can do in my opinion.
The location was unusual and yes if someone is determined they will find a way of accessing the track but even so Bow Junction is not an obvious place to get to. Thoughts with the driver of the 16:00 down and others dealing with the consequences.
The location was unusual and yes if someone is determined they will find a way of accessing the track but even so Bow Junction is not an obvious place to get to. Thoughts with the driver of the 16:00 down and others dealing with the consequences.
Blindtraveler
Established Member
The person who sanctioned this going ahead needs shot, nanny state treatment yet again, and so says my Wife who herself has major mental health issues
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Shot proffessionally, i.e his or her job that is
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Shot proffessionally, i.e his or her job that is
A very emotive point of view but I can assure you your wife is not the spokes person for all with mental health issues. I agree with you that it's probably going about it the wrong way but ...
Blindtraveler
Established Member
Valid point mate but this kind of thing makes us angry. Sorry if any offenced
The policy is not it is forbidden to mention that a person has been hit by a train, just that the general service messages should use the headline 'emergency services dealing with an incident'. If somebody asks for more details, it is still fine to tell them that a person has been hit by a train. Locations should not be referred to specifically though, but a broader description of the area affected by the incident given.
Matt Taylor
Established Member
It's nonsense, there was an incident in October described as 'Emergency services dealing with an incident between Woking and London Waterloo' which was so vague as to be almost useless as it gave me no idea of a time scale or even whether metro services were affected or not. It turned out to be a fatality at Surbiton (at 0730) but it took a while to work out that information, how it would affect my passengers (all 1000+ of them) and what alternatives were available.
It was a mess frankly.
It was a mess frankly.
No no I totally understand and agree with you, but I can't help but be wary of ignoring the reasons behind the phraseology change. No offence at all just playing devil's advocate.
The information provided to staff should in theory be exactly the same. The headline message is 'Emergency Services Dealing with an Incident between Woking and London Waterloo' but the staff messages still go in to the standard level of detail. Even the detailed customer message will normally refer to a person being hit by a train.
Minilad
Established Member
Another one in the Tamworth area. 1V68 the train involved
VauxhallandI
Established Member
I passed through at 17:30ish and could have sworn they announced "person hit by a train" on the PA system.
The tube was rammed and may have been temporarily shut due to over crowding.
They also announced no trains till 19:00 and that everyone should go and come back later; then three minutes later announced a train to Shenfield!
The tube was rammed and may have been temporarily shut due to over crowding.
They also announced no trains till 19:00 and that everyone should go and come back later; then three minutes later announced a train to Shenfield!
Blindtraveler
Established Member
But yet I get the impression no staff tonight HAVE been told
colchesterken
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I would have thought that to Joe or Josie public it could work against the TOC interests
We who know about these things, know what we know ( as the American said, cannot remember who was it Bush or Rumsfeld ) but the uninformed could think it is a train derailment, fire, crash, breakdown and blame the TOC.. After all they would not announce " no service due to train crash " so best to say it as it is.
We who know about these things, know what we know ( as the American said, cannot remember who was it Bush or Rumsfeld ) but the uninformed could think it is a train derailment, fire, crash, breakdown and blame the TOC.. After all they would not announce " no service due to train crash " so best to say it as it is.
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