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Incident near Bethnal Green Jan 20th

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SPADTrap

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I did say most of the time...

Indeed.

The point is each incident is different. Most of the time this, always that - for every incident that is dealt with in 90 minutes or less there is another that takes double that.

I'm more than at a loss with this though
There's no reason dealing with a person hit by train incident has to take so long;

Have you ever been involved in or attended one?

.....and standing on a platform with a phone that can receive NR/TOC incident messages doesn't count.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK I exaggerated when I said always. But the vast majority on the GEML take around 2 hours. When AGA started giving out the 19:30 time it was only about 15 minutes away from re-opening. Whatever anyone says, there isn't an excuse for that.

How did you know it was 15 minutes away from reopening? The method used to recover the body and set involved wasn't guaranteed to be a success, the set could have failed shortly after due to damage.
 
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RichardN

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I hope those specialist cleaners are very well paid. Must be a really grim job.
 

Laurab

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Sorry for bumping such an old thread. My name is Laura, and my best friend James was the fatality at Bow in January this year.

I wanted to talk to the driver of the train at the inquest to his death, but he had supplied a written statement instead of attending, which I understand. I just wanted to apologise for what he went through, and to say that I've thought about him often. The last time I spoke with the BTP, they said you were back at work now. I hope you're doing okay and I think about you often.

The care and compassion from staff in this thread has brought me to tears. I had reasoned that there would be a certain amount of black humour to deal with such incidents (which I completely understand), but to read that this is as heartbreaking to many of you as it was to me means a great deal. Maybe this is silly but I just wanted to say thank you.
 

moggie

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Sorry for bumping such an old thread. My name is Laura, and my best friend James was the fatality at Bow in January this year.

I wanted to talk to the driver of the train at the inquest to his death, but he had supplied a written statement instead of attending, which I understand. I just wanted to apologise for what he went through, and to say that I've thought about him often. The last time I spoke with the BTP, they said you were back at work now. I hope you're doing okay and I think about you often.

The care and compassion from staff in this thread has brought me to tears. I had reasoned that there would be a certain amount of black humour to deal with such incidents (which I completely understand), but to read that this is as heartbreaking to many of you as it was to me means a great deal. Maybe this is silly but I just wanted to say thank you.

The country would be a better place if there were more thoughtful and considerate people like you.
 

theironroad

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The person who sanctioned this going ahead needs shot, nanny state treatment yet again, and so says my Wife who herself has major mental health issues
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Shot proffessionally, i.e his or her job that is

This is a disgusting post and using your wife's health issues as a defence doesn't make it any better. The person ' needs shot' is a diabolical statement and I'm surprised it's not been highlighted before. I've also reported it for what it's worth as no doubt the mods will find if perfectly acceptable by historic standards.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry for bumping such an old thread. My name is Laura, and my best friend James was the fatality at Bow in January this year.

I wanted to talk to the driver of the train at the inquest to his death, but he had supplied a written statement instead of attending, which I understand. I just wanted to apologise for what he went through, and to say that I've thought about him often. The last time I spoke with the BTP, they said you were back at work now. I hope you're doing okay and I think about you often.

The care and compassion from staff in this thread has brought me to tears. I had reasoned that there would be a certain amount of black humour to deal with such incidents (which I completely understand), but to read that this is as heartbreaking to many of you as it was to me means a great deal. Maybe this is silly but I just wanted to say thank you.
Firstly Laura, I'm sorry for your loss and hope time heals. It will, however slowly it may seem.

I don't work for the company concerned, but as a driver I know of many of my colleagues who have had to deal with this type of incident and all deal with it differently. I'm glad you understand why the driver in your friend's case used a written statement as attending court is almost re-living the actual event and is often equally traumatising for them.

There are no winners in these events, just many people who lose.

It's rare to see a post written from your perspective and I just want to say how moving it is. Thank you.
 

tsr

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Between the parallel lines
Sorry for bumping such an old thread. My name is Laura, and my best friend James was the fatality at Bow in January this year.

I wanted to talk to the driver of the train at the inquest to his death, but he had supplied a written statement instead of attending, which I understand. I just wanted to apologise for what he went through, and to say that I've thought about him often. The last time I spoke with the BTP, they said you were back at work now. I hope you're doing okay and I think about you often.

The care and compassion from staff in this thread has brought me to tears. I had reasoned that there would be a certain amount of black humour to deal with such incidents (which I completely understand), but to read that this is as heartbreaking to many of you as it was to me means a great deal. Maybe this is silly but I just wanted to say thank you.

Laura, as others above have said, thank you for such a thoughtful post. Especially so, in light of the fact that a lot of what we had on this thread was a technical discussion about how these types of events are reported to the public, and the reasoning behind the response to such things by frontline rail staff. I'm glad the overall care of this forum has shone through here. Believe me when I say that you do have my greatest sympathies when it comes to what you have had to experience, and my thoughts are also with James's family and all those in a similar position. Your post is not silly, and as a member of railway staff, I do receive it well.

Again, as those who have posted before me indicated, many people do find that there is no easy path when it comes to reacting to, and attempting to rationalise in one's mind, suicidal behaviour on the railway. Rest assured that just as you have wanted to try to understand what happened, and speak to everyone involved, those of us who are railway staff often have this sort of incident dwelling in our minds, and we try to help each other by discussing it in a tone appropriate to the audience at hand. You are right that this sometimes involves black humour but, from my experience, it is never the case that this is meant to offend. I am really glad it did not do so here. In addition, I think the need to talk through events like this can also be muddled a little with apologising for them. It sounds hollow, and please don't take it the wrong way, but please don't worry about apologising. The last thing that any member of train crew wants to do is to make you feel inadequate simply because you are a friend of somebody who sadly passed away in our workplace. By posting here, and allowing us to discuss this, you have probably helped more than you know, too.

One of the privileges of some types of railway work, particularly being train crew, is that you do have a lot of very interesting interactions with other human beings, and there is little that is nicer than transporting passengers safely and punctually to their destinations, perhaps through beautiful countryside (as is the case further down the Great Eastern Mainline), whilst building up a rapport with them. It is therefore all the more tragic when this peace is shattered, and I can tell you from personal experience that there is a moment of tragedy felt even when receiving the email or phone call detailing somebody being injured or deceased on the line, let alone being in the proximity of such. I am pretty sure the driver you mention would rather be able to be back at work, than not yet be in a position to be, and if they read this, I am sure they will be very moved by what you've written.

In due course, if you feel like you can share any ideas about how you feel it is best to help those affected by fatalities, or how such incidents are communicated to the public, you will be more than welcome to post here, or you may want to speak to Network Rail or BTP, or your local train operator. A lot of operators have suicide prevention workgroups, or feed back to the wider industry to improve best practice. I really do appreciate that it is hard to know this will not help James now, and I have experienced very similar frustrations after trying to help those attempting self-harm on the railway, but it may help someone else. Indeed, despite this, the work put into developing such strategies has helped me in other ways, mainly when speaking to bystanders and train crew who have witnessed these events.

Again, thank you!
 
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Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
I feel I should appologise to
theironroad
I did not mean to cause offence and was simply making my feelings and those of someone who is close to a person with mental health issues known. We personally find the railways customer information response to this type of incident belittling and unhelpful. People with this type of issue often do this sort of thing as they feel they are the problem and by doing so think they are removing said problem from others. Not so, and describing it in the way the railway now does to the traveling public is IMO not nice and certainly not helpfull.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In terms of the support network for drivers and other staff as well as any bystanders its great to hear such positive comments about how it works and Im delighted that a poster like Laurab is able to come on here and not only welcomed but not blamed as the friends of those in trouble are so often blamed for not doing enough.

Laurab, I am just an enthusiast and passenger but if I can be of any help please say and Im sure all the rail staff on here will feel likewise as demonstrated in posts above. Your clearly a very special lass.
 

talldave

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Sorry for bumping such an old thread. My name is Laura, and my best friend James was the fatality at Bow in January this year.

I wanted to talk to the driver of the train at the inquest to his death, but he had supplied a written statement instead of attending, which I understand. I just wanted to apologise for what he went through, and to say that I've thought about him often. The last time I spoke with the BTP, they said you were back at work now. I hope you're doing okay and I think about you often.

The care and compassion from staff in this thread has brought me to tears. I had reasoned that there would be a certain amount of black humour to deal with such incidents (which I completely understand), but to read that this is as heartbreaking to many of you as it was to me means a great deal. Maybe this is silly but I just wanted to say thank you.

Thanks for taking the trouble to make such a heartfelt post.

As someone who's personally had to try to understand the lure of the railway to people going through dark times, I would urge you to take up tsr's suggestion if you feel there's anything that could help others in the future. It's not just a case of saving one life, it's preventing the ripple of life-changing devestation that drags in all those with any involvement in the incident.

The forum doesn't have a "hug" button, but consider it pushed anyway.
 

Laurab

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Thanks for the lovely comments from you all.

James was suffering with bipolar disorder for a very long time, and had been bullied online in the 24 hours previous to his death. Although I was the last person to talk to him, I don't know why he chose to walk into the path of the train, and obviously never will now. I believe he knew the road from his running route, and managed to access the train line by climbing up an embankment, although I never found out for sure. I went there myself to try and figure it out, but again, I won't know and there was inadequate CCTV to ascertain exactly how he did what he did.

I have tried calling people out on social media when someone is hit by a train and people complain of selfish behaviour. While it is obviously selfish in some respects, such as the impact it has on the lives and jobs of the staff of the railway network, and to his friends who were his family, I try to ask people to remember that someone has just lost a child, or a best friend, or a brother. Someone felt so desperate that there was no alternative. Some people listen to the point you make, but others don't respond well, which makes me so sad. I am only glad they have never had to encounter the same sense of grief, or the lack of closure from not being able to see your friend again because they're literally in pieces. Truly, the worst part of this was hearing the doctor at the inquest describing his injuries as being incompatible with life. I can't imagine what that means in reality but that shouldn't have been the way that my brilliant friend left us.

I don't know what else there is that you can do, really. I've been in touch with some journalists who might write something about it, but that really focuses on the harassment on social media rather than anything else. I wish with all my heart that I could do more, that I could be given the opportunity to talk to someone who was waiting at a station for the next train, to make them know that so many strangers out there care, but how can you know?

Anyway. Thank you again, and if, by any chance someone reads this who was in the driver's seat in a similar situation - we don't blame you. You couldn't have done anything. I'm so sorry you were involved in such a tragedy, and I hope you are able to find peace and happiness again.

Laura
 
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Firstly as others have said Laura well done for such a lovely post, you're more than welcome to come to us whenever you need any info.

I do work on the GEML and was caught up, albeit indirectly, in James's suicide, I assure you that despite my train being very late at the destination the several hundred passengers on board where very understanding and sympathetic to what had gone on.

I notice in your post you wanted to speak to the driver, if you still want to do this get in touch with Greater Anglia and I'm sure they will at least ask the driver if he/she can talk with you, they're a good bunch at customer relations in Norwich. Do be warned though many drivers, rightly or wrongly, deal with such situations by attempting to ignore them so he/she may not wish to speak with you. Don't take this personally if it is the case!

If there's anything we here can do to help you out you're always welcome to bump up this thread or message us.
 
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Bald Rick

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Laura, writing that post was a most courageous thing to do. Thank you for taking the time to do so, and be reassured that many of us are thinking about you and others in a similar position to you. Best wishes.
 

Laurab

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Firstly as others have said Laura well done for such a lovely post, you're more than welcome to come to us whenever you need any info.

I do work on the GEML and was caught up, albeit indirectly, in James's suicide, I assure you that despite my train being very late at the destination the several hundred passengers on board where very understanding and sympathetic to what had gone on.

I notice in your post you wanted to speak to the driver, if you still want to do this get in touch with Greater Anglia and I'm sure they will at least ask the driver if he/she can talk with you, they're a good bunch at customer relations in Norwich. Do be warned though many drivers, rightly or wrongly, deal with such situations by attempting to ignore them so he/she may not wish to speak with you. Don't take this personally if it is the case!

If there's anything we here can do to help you out you're always welcome to bump up this thread or message us.

Thank you. I did reply earlier but the post seems to be lost in the woodwork somewhere! I don't want to remind the driver of it any more than he already has - he chose to give a written statement which I respect, and I would only be looking for closure from a selfish standpoint... I don't know why his last moments and what happened to him are important to me, but it is. Not at a cost to someone else's mental health though. Even the little detail I found on here about him being transported by train to somewhere more accessible is another piece of the jigsaw, and strangely comforting.

Thank you to everyone for your really lovely messages. I cannot tell you how much it means to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thanks for taking the trouble to make such a heartfelt post.

As someone who's personally had to try to understand the lure of the railway to people going through dark times, I would urge you to take up tsr's suggestion if you feel there's anything that could help others in the future. It's not just a case of saving one life, it's preventing the ripple of life-changing devestation that drags in all those with any involvement in the incident.

The forum doesn't have a "hug" button, but consider it pushed anyway.

I'd love to help if I can. I went into some detail earlier about what happened to james in his final hours but it never made it to the thread strangely. I think james knew the spot because it was part of his route when he went running, and from what I can tell, he climbed an embankment to get to the track, but there's no CCTV so we don't know definitely. I don't think he would have wanted anyone else to be impacted by what he decided to do - it may seem strange for me to say but he was such a considerate, kind person. He did what he did under extreme duress, and I think he just wanted a guarantee that whatever he did would be final, and I guess walking towards a train travelling at sixty miles an hour will do that.

I have tried to encourage passengers who have been rather unkind on social media after being delayed by a fatality that someone has just lost their child, or a friend, or a colleague. That a person's life ended in that moment and just trying to have a shred of humanity for all involved rather than cursing the dead person, the staff at train stations for not being able to share specific timeframes on when things will be operating again, the emergency services for not working fast enough, etc. Some are responsive, some are not. But I need for something good to come out of this, and I don't know what else I can do.

Anyway. Thank you again, and if I can ever help anyone or do anything, please let me know. Being given the opportunity would mean a lot to me.
 

Carntyne

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Thanks for taking the time to post, Laura, very kind words. I'm sorry for your loss.
 

theironroad

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Laura, thanks for elaborating in your last couple of posts.

The Samaritans have worked closely with the train operating companies and network rail in recent years to help deter suicide on the railways.

While the Samaritans welcome volunteers, I'm not aware of formal railway related volunteer roles in this field but if you are interested, it may be worth pursuing.

Thanks again for your openness.
 

Sherbert1

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Dear Laura, no family should have to make apologies for a loved one that has taken their own life. My heart goes out to you and this time of year it will be an even worse burden. This I know from experience. You sound like an amazing women and I just want you to know we and that's all of us who work on the stations know these are not the final actions of inconsiderate persons. Bless you for trying to help and guide others, it's a small comfort but your family and friends must be so proud that you still feel able to do this. I send my love to you and your family this Christmas and I understand please know I know your pain xxx
 

321446

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Laura, your post was really a beautiful thing to read. I hope that you are able to find some peace along the way.

I was involved in another incident, as a driver, and I found that I had a "need to know" about the person concerned. I found it helped me so much in coming to terms with things, so I can really empathise with you. As you have probably worked out by now, different people deal with things in different ways, but I have taken your comments to heart, as have others and I hope you can do the same with others comments to you.

The Railway gets a lot of stick, from inside as much as outside, but one thing which means so much to me is The Railway Family. When chips are down, people support each other. And you don't have to be on the job, if it happened on the Railway, we are all there for you.
 
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