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Flying Scotsman
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trainmania100
Established Member
Here is my film of 60103 at Eastleigh today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADnau8pcGzU
It was rather wet and crowded so dont expect anything amazing :P
Not my best video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADnau8pcGzU
It was rather wet and crowded so dont expect anything amazing :P
Not my best video
ryan125hst
Established Member
I've seen on Twitter that they were a lot of trespassers during that section of today's trip sadly (I don't know whether or not there were similar issues on the Paddington-Salisbury and return sections or not), but it seems as though 60103 was fine mechanically today.
Her next tour is on Wednesday when she is going from London Victoria to Shalford and back. She should have been going from Victoria to Norwich via Ely and back that day, but fears of trespassing issues in rural Norfolk, particularly as a result of the large number of level crossings, caused them to cancel that tour and run to Shalford and back instead.
Then next Saturday she's doing a Paddington to Salisbury run again (should have been Bristol but can't go there now due to Engineering works according to UKSteam)
MatthewRead
On Moderation
Waited over an hour for it at Weybridge it didn't show thought it was returning to Waterloo
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kevinwaltets
Member
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Salisbury this evening. I asked for platform ticket and was invited through the barrier. Staff helpful and most accommodating.
Saw her at 1, Milbrook, on an overbridge. 2, Near Dean, 3, at Salisbury, 4 leaving Reading.
200 miles in car and I don't do kettles.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Saw her at 1, Milbrook, on an overbridge. 2, Near Dean, 3, at Salisbury, 4 leaving Reading.
200 miles in car and I don't do kettles.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
silverfoxcc
Member
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Found a nice bridge this morning, good shot not Crowded. went to Twyford this evening, full of idiots.
Standing on the edge of platform Yellow Line..What yellow line? so when word got out it was on the UM instead of the relief, ( i had already checked open train times...nice site!! and casually wandred across) it looked like the start of the London Marathon going from 3 and 4 to 1 ,although the anti suicide gates were open between 2/3.Plod in attendance
, although not keeping them back. so the 'ones who give us a bad name' all crowded onto P1 and STOOD ON THE EDGE!!! despite being told HSTs go past at 125mph.. stations are not the best place to be!!
Standing on the edge of platform Yellow Line..What yellow line? so when word got out it was on the UM instead of the relief, ( i had already checked open train times...nice site!! and casually wandred across) it looked like the start of the London Marathon going from 3 and 4 to 1 ,although the anti suicide gates were open between 2/3.Plod in attendance
, although not keeping them back. so the 'ones who give us a bad name' all crowded onto P1 and STOOD ON THE EDGE!!! despite being told HSTs go past at 125mph.. stations are not the best place to be!!
father_jack
Established Member
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leomartin125
Member
Certainly was. I was responsible for that I'm afraid
If your responsible for that then thank you! The fast lines at Maidenhead have a much better view than that of the relief lines, so I got a much better shot! Thanks
341o2
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kevinwaltets
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- 11 Apr 2012
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- 45
You're quite right, the coaches are the same but the experience was very different. I was on the journey to York and back last Thursday. Diesel hauled up, as promised - diesel back, not what was expected.
An awful lot of people on the train had been bought the experience by family as Christmas or Birthday presents etc, so I can totally understand the annoyance. If you add in the fact that most weren't London based, had booked two nights at a London hotel, and transport from home to London and back it soon adds up (about £350 all in for me!). There were many in tears and angry both at the platform and on the train home.
One poor couple actually lived in York and had not travelled up, but had to buy the full journey - so they turned up in the afternoon to go to London, stay overnight and return back on a diesel train, and that was it!!
For most it wasn't even about the money, it was the fact the experience had been spoiled. To add to the issue, we were only told 15 minutes before departure that the train had an issue. It wouldn't have been so bad if we'd have even caught sight of it in real life! It was hidden away behind the NRM out of sight that day.
We have been offered £15 refund per person for those in premium standard - the tickets originally cost £109 each. This was in the terms and conditions when we booked so that is what is on offer. The alternative was a discount on a future trip - but all the Scotsman trips are full anyway.
Steam Dreams have also suggested they 'may' be able to arrange another trip on the Scotsman at a heavily discounted rate - I will just have to make myself available on whatever date that may be. Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen again.
Shimbleshanks
Member
Fully agree. People are paying for the sound and smell of a kettle on the front; for them, a diesel is no substitute.
I had a similar experience a few years back on a steam trip from London to Weymouth and back when it was announced - once we were underway from Victoria, it might be added - that the return would be behind a class 37 diesel. Not only was the hoped for journey behind steam up the gradients out of Weymouth lost, but we were also on a diesel-hauled train on steam timings. That meant never-ending waits while we were looped for service trains and long pauses at suburban stations where we should have taken water but of course didn't. If I want to go on a classic traction tour I will go on one with purpose-designed timings with some main line paths and fast running - and get home in a reasonable time.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Like any train on the network, kettles can break down and obviously a replacement is not going to be found at such short notice. I understand the disappointment but would you prefer the operator cancelled the train?
As mentioned previously, when a person signs the T&C's, s(he accepts any unforseen circumstances/changes, such as a breakdown and substitute engine
At least the funds are going towards something useful - i.e. the upkeep and maintenance of the steam engine, look at it as a positive contribution
Go to a preserved steam railway where you will almost be guaranteed a kettle on every service...
As mentioned previously, when a person signs the T&C's, s(he accepts any unforseen circumstances/changes, such as a breakdown and substitute engine
At least the funds are going towards something useful - i.e. the upkeep and maintenance of the steam engine, look at it as a positive contribution
Go to a preserved steam railway where you will almost be guaranteed a kettle on every service...
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Shimbleshanks
Member
Yes, I would much rather have a cancelled train and a refund, same as virtually any other operation in the field of mass entertainment. If the Man United and Crystal Palace teams hadn't been available on Saturday for some reason, supporters wouldn't have been expected to watch Skelmersdale Utd v Whyteleafe Town instead.
And I'm not sure that Joe/Joanna Public, having been parted with several hundred pounds of his or her hard-earned dosh, would see it as somehow making a contribution to the greater good of humanity.
Like it or not, steam operators are businesses and they should behave as such instead of hiding behind small print.
Deepgreen
Established Member
If I've the thread correctly, it seemed that the post claimed 200 miles of car travel to see FS in four places, but then claimed "I don't do kettles" which I took to mean 'I don't go to see steam engines'. I perceive a contradiction, but I may have missed something (and I'm only an outsider in this case anyway).
Because it's a discussion forum and they are asking a question? You'll find it happens....
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
A steam charter is not the same as "mass entertainment" as you put it. Even if the operator was able to refund the full amount to everyone, many would have lost out in hotel/travel bills etc and do you really expect the operator to refund all of those as well !?
Things happen unexpectedly, perhaps the operator can (or already does) offer heavily discounted rates on its next steam tour - then it's up to the individual whether to accept this or not.
An operator cannot just have a second steam engine on standby should the booked one fail.
Shimbleshanks
Member
No, where did I say I expected the operator to refund hotel or travel expenses? I'm talking about the money people pay to travel behind a steam loco who don't get get what they paid for.
Yes, it IS entertainment. You're asking the general public (not hardcore train enthusiasts) to pay money to engage in something that is pleasurable, but is not a necessity (like a journey to work). If you fail to provide that experience, then the public has every right to expect a refund. And most members of the general public would not think of a superannuated diesel coughing its guts out over the countryside as an adequate substitute.
As someone on TripAdvisor said of the recent Flying Scotsman tour, if Elton John has flu and fails to turn up at the O2, concert goers get a ticket for the rescheduled date or a refund. Why should the steam train business be any different?
Enthusiasts might buy the line: 'It's steam, it's all really difficult and expensive, you have to expect things to go wrong and don't expect us to refund you if they do' - but Joe Public almost certainly won't see it that way. Airlines, cruise ship operators and others have contingency plans for when things go wrong - why can't steam train operators?
ryan125hst
Established Member
They do. If they know that the booked loco won't be available far enough in advance, they'll use another one instead. If it is know too late to do this, they'll run the tour using a diesel. This means that the tour still goes ahead, so people haven't wasted money on travel and hotels only to find the tour cancelled, and while people will obviously be disappointed by the lack of a steam engine, they still get to go to their destination for the day, and those that are in a class that features catering will still get that food.
I'm not saying that I think replacing steam with a diesel last minute is a good thing and I understand people's disappointment. What I'm saying is that by the vary nature of a steam engine, ie. old technology and complicated mechanical machines, things do sometimes go wrong. You can't run a steam engine on the mainline if the injectors aren't working- it's dangerous! However, it was best to return the tour to London with a diesel than it was to leave the passengers stranded.
It's not ideal, and I was only speaking to my Mum about this earlier as we are considering going from Retford to York and back behind Mayflower in August with my sister and Grandparents, but it appears Mayflower worked the same tour at the same time of year last year but it was replaced by a diesel, and the loco is still undergoing repairs as far as I know. I'll be disappointed if we get diesel and not steam, but my family will be even more so as they aren't rail enthusiasts so the steam engine would make the journey.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
No I appreciate that regarding the operator (not) refunding hotel/travel expenses but you are paying also for the upkeep, maintenance and ongoing expenses of the steam locomotive which don't come cheap.
The big organisers of gigs etc probably have insurance in place in the event of a singer falling ill and can therefore afford to give refunds, but not so for the small, humble steam operator who have shelled out for the crew.
like it or not "it" happens ....
crew
The big organisers of gigs etc probably have insurance in place in the event of a singer falling ill and can therefore afford to give refunds, but not so for the small, humble steam operator who have shelled out for the crew.
like it or not "it" happens ....
crew
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
I think it is Salisbury again but don't quote me...
Shimbleshanks
Member
Perhaps insurance is the answer to the problem. Either the operator could take out some sort of insurance against having to refund a proportion of the passengers in the event of steam being cancelled (surely not THAT expensive, if you can find someone to insure the risk?) or the passenger, when booking the ticket, could pay a few quid extra for such a policy. Come to think of it, last time I booked a music concert I paid an extra £8 or so to be allowed such a refund in the event that I decided not to go.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It's a slightly different situation where a steam loco develops a fault en route. It happened to me on a Cumbrian Mountain Express when the Jubilee developed injector trouble. In the event, we did get the main part of the trip behind steam with the diesel being substituted only for the last few miles of the schedule steam section from Hellifield. I don't think any of the passengers minded too much.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
When you say identical trip, you mean from Paddington via Westbury? Any news on where it will go upon arrival at Salisbury?
221129
Established Member
I believe it is Paddington - Salisbury return
krus_aragon
Established Member
Shimbleshanks
Member
The Realtime Trains site is tricky to use unless you're a hardened railwayac. The only reasonably definite information I have (in an email from the train operator) is that it departs London Victoria at 18.50 and arrives back at Clapham Junction at 23.20 after a circular tour of the Surrey Hills.
What Realtime Trains IS showing is an unadvertised special express which is shown up as diesel hauled (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59501/2016/05/25/advanced) - whether that's because of a limitation of the system or an attempt to put would-be trespassers off the scent I don't know.
The Railway Herald site isn't showing the service at all on the 25th as far as I can tell.
Possibly the best chance of seeing Flying Scotsman in action is to turn up at Victoria or one of the road overbridges near the station at around 18.50. I can't see you being denied access to stations en route as they have to open for public service trains, though you might have to buy a platform ticket if you don't have a travel ticket.
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