Alstom submit plans for Halebank, Widnes site!

[8A Rail]

The site Alstom is looking at (former Amazon site) is greenfield. It was farming land that had laid fallow for a number of years. A few years ago Halton built a park around what was to be the edge of the site before preparing the site to be sold. Very cloak and dagger at the time. Typical council keeping things quiet. The site is so big that industrialisation will now come right up to the council border with Knowsley. Then there will only be a couple of green fields between the extremities of the Liverpool conurbation and Widnes/Runcorn.

All true and I am fully aware of the whole area especially if you look at my fickr site and were I obtain my images from along that line. The land in question has not been farm land for many many years to be honest but it may not be entirely Halton BC fault though about the cloak and dagger as you put it.

All councils in England are under pressure from Central Government to make land available for the future to take care of housing and industrial needs - that includes certain greenbelt land going brownfield land were necessary, if their is no suitable brownfield sites to begin with! There lies the rub, if i use Knowsley BC as an example, they had to submit to Central Government their plans for expansion in the area which did include Greenfield sites for conversion whether the council liked it or not! Currently the decision from Central Government is still being made although the plans were submitted 12 months ago which includes a Greenbelt site near where I live. This process will also include other councils from around the UK including Halton BC. It is possible that this area at Halebank has been part of that process sometime ago? If so, dont entirely blame Halton BC for it, look towards Central Government too!

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes the local authority has to produce a spatial strategy that allocates enough land in the right places for the predicted requirement of housing. A Westminister inspector then reviews the plan and if they decide there hasn't been enough put aside they force the council to set aside more land. If the council does not produce and adopt a compliant strategy developers have legal freedom to build anywhere they like.

 

[montyburns56]

That is hardly Alstom's fault is it? Both locations are in the area of Halton BC and the proposed site has been earmarked for industrial use for some considerable time. Halton BC have been attempting to find a company to use the land, one previously was Amazon. I will find out if the area in question was a greenfield site to begin with though as I'm not sure it was.

Well I don't know, that depends if anyone has even suggested the idea to them. It's probably easier to build on greenfield site, but it would be nice if the site of the chemical works could be reused.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Firstly, there is a significant difference, in planning terms, between greenfield and Green Belt. The latter can be developed only in exceptional circumstances.

Secondly, the requirement to provide land to meet housing / employment targets is an artificial game. To start, some statistics based purely on past growth rates are produced. Such numbers are broken down by government region. Officers of the local authorities in each region then sit in a 'darkened smoke-filled room' arguing / bidding for how many they will or won't take. Then at the end of the meeting, the white? smoke is released and an authority is committed to those numbers for evermore. Thus having asked for, say, 100,000 new homes without regard to whether the public would agree with those numbers, the local authority can say 'oh, these are government targets, we have to meet them', without actually admitting that the numbers are what they asked for in the first place. Buck passed. Or perhaps things are done differently in the north-west.

 

[WatcherZero]

Well here in Greater Manchester we assess what we need for the county and three different growth projections, then the councils say what land they can provide, then they square the difference trying to fill in the gaps by asking for the public to suggest sites the councils haven't.

That's now coming in replacing the system where individual councils had to produce enough land against ONS population growth projection and identified the land required then the Government inspector would come in and say you haven't set aside enough in this ward because it will be in high demand, or this land wont allow as many houses as you think it will.

 

[Camden]

But Widnes isn't in Greater Manchester, it's in Liverpool's surrounds.

 

[6Gman]

But Widnes isn't in Greater Manchester, it's in Liverpool's surrounds.

Widnes is a unitary authority within the ceremonial (but not administrative) county of Cheshire.

It is, of course, likely to become part of the Liverpool/Merseyside City Region.

 

[8A Rail]

Widnes is a unitary authority within the ceremonial (but not administrative) county of Cheshire.
It is, of course, likely to become part of the Liverpool/Merseyside City Region.

It will do as Widnes is under Halton BC which is one of the six councils coming under "Liverpool City Region" umbrella for all things except health and police as far as I am aware.

 

[notlob.divad]

Has anyone heard any more news on this? I am wondering what if any impact this facility will have on the Edge Hill Maintenance Depot.

 

[WatcherZero]

Not had a planning decision yet, the council has started clearing hedgerows at the site a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[childwallblues]

What is the problems with access?
If Fiddlers Ferry coal trains could make two reversals in Warrington for over 25 years this should be a doddle for passenger units.

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[notlob.divad]

I don't think access will be a major issue. I am pretty sure trains can get across the tracks at Ditton to and from Crewe. North bound WCML, isn't as easy but I am not sure how important is would be for this kind of facility.
They appear to be building this as a major maintenance & overhaul/future build depot rather than a centralized location for current units and in that sense the day to day access may not be so important.

My questions about Edge Hill where as this is on the same bit of line, would they be abandoning that site and would it be a location that TPE would be interested in for their new fleet. I am not sure the time scales stack up as there isn't even permission, let alone spades in the ground for this.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

My questions about Edge Hill where as this is on the same bit of line, would they be abandoning that site and would it be a location that TPE would be interested in for their new fleet. I am not sure the time scales stack up as there isn't even permission, let alone spades in the ground for this.

Hitachi will be using Edge Hill for AT300 servicing (not full maintenance), probably hired from Alstom.

 

[notlob.divad]

I found the Planning application for the Halton site. It was targeted to report back on the 17th February, but is still pending consideration. With Local elections due in a few weeks, I expect no announcement either way before then.

 

[8A Rail]

Well the first problem would be that the Ditton - Latchford and Latchford - Walton Old Jnc sections aren't wired. Hence my comment about associated infrastructure investment.
If the new facility is for diesel trains only, then no problem.

And it won't be a problem with electric trains either considering all lines (with the exception of the CLC route to Warrington Central) is all electrified! I doubt Alstom are that bothered by your concerns as otherwise would not consider the site / location in the first place

To gain the quickest access to the WCML is via Weaver Junction / Hartford Junction whether going north or south especially as the proposed connection to the site will be facing east / south. Going via Edge Hill for WCML / Manchester it would need to cross all lines at that location to gain access to/from the L&M line, along with fitting in with the various train services at Edge Hill too.

Please remember some regular ECS movements to / from Edge Hill go south via Runcorn already to go north (Preston) or east (Manchester via Crewe).

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[childwallblues]

The same as TPE use Edge Hill for 185 servicing now?

 

[notlob.divad]

Hearing on the Local radio that the planning application for this has been approved with the creation of 800 jobs.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Alstom has got planning approval for its Halebank/Widnes/Halton site:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-services-facility-and-transport-academy.html
http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/...n-a-new-site-in-the-north-west-of-england-uk/

The site will be used as a training and maintenance centre. No manufacturing plans at the moment.

 

[WatcherZero]

Primary purpose to train the companies engineers to work at other depots round the country though will do some maintenance itself.

 

[northwichcat]

Has anything been confirmed about the future of the Chester depot with Alstom reportedly not wanting to extend the lease beyond Autumn 2018?

 

[WatcherZero]

Alstom have announced the first contract that will be carried out at the Widnes plant.

A £24m contract to repaint the 56 strong 390 fleet including stripping the previous paint and checking for minor bodywork damage. It will employ 80 people taking 2 weeks per train running from May 2017 to Dec 2019.

 

[northwichcat]

Alstom have announced the first contract that will be carried out at the Widnes plant.

A £24m contract to repaint the 56 strong 390 fleet including stripping the previous paint and checking for minor bodywork damage. It will employ 80 people taking 2 weeks per train running from May 2017 to Dec 2019.

With the franchise award for the next WC franchise set to be made in the autumn of 2017, will the repaint initially be in to a neutral base colour without any vinyls?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

With the franchise award for the next WC franchise set to be made in the autumn of 2017, will the repaint initially be in to a neutral base colour without any vinyls?

If the Pendolino sets are like the rest of Alstom's UK product range, they'll still be fixing the corrosion in autumn 2017 and repainting won't be an issue.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If the Pendolino sets are like the rest of Alstom's UK product range, they'll still be fixing the corrosion in autumn 2017 and repainting won't be an issue.

They're Italian underneath (and are mostly aluminium not steel).
But Fiats used to rust as badly as Renaults at one time (beaten only by Vauxhalls).

 

[Philip Phlopp]

They're Italian underneath.
But Fiats used to rust as badly as Renaults at one time (beaten only by Vauxhalls).

They're nothing to the legendary (as in absolutely terrible) Lancia Beta, which was recalled after the rear suspension was found to rust so quickly they would barely see out the warranty before the back of the car fell off.

 

[Harbornite]

If the Pendolino sets are like the rest of Alstom's UK product range, they'll still be fixing the corrosion in autumn 2017 and repainting won't be an issue.

I don't recall hearing of any corrosion issues with the Junipers or 180 Coradias. I was only aware of the Arriva TW Coradas having issues.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I don't recall hearing of any corrosion issues with the Junipers or 180 Coradias. I was only aware of the Arriva TW Coradas having issues.

The bulk of the delay in the Class 458/5 program was unexpected corrosion rectification. The Class 180 units can only be rot free if the painting and protection package used is considerably better, otherwise they'll be as bad as the Arriva Class 175s.