Overstretched UK border control cause delays at Gare du Nord

[Old Yard Dog]

On Wednesday 26th October, my wife and I decided to check in at Gare du Nord in good time for the 1843 from Paris to London due to the lack of seating on the station proper. Having gone up the escalator we were forced to stand in a separate queue as they were "prioritizing" (sic) passengers for the 1813 who were whisked straight through.

This situation continued for some time and it was well over half an hour before we got to the automatic check in gates. We then had to queue again at the French passport control desk. The staff there were regularly twiddling their thumbs unable to let more people through to avoid congestion at the UK border control where there was a huge backlog. Eventually we got through to join another queue but were delayed again by the number of people swanning up at the very last minute to catch the 1813, who were allowed straight through to the front. It made us wish we had turned up an hour later. Thankfully there was no queue at security. My wife has a bad knee and was in considerable pain by the time we finally got through to the cramped departure lounge.

As a consequence of all these shenanigans, the 1843 was delayed by 20 minutes and eventually arrived in London 25 minutes late. We were glad we had decided to stay the night in London rather than try catch the last train home from Euston at 2110. But many people must have been stranded in the capital.

UK passport control is clearly overstretched and their staff will not hurry for man nor beast. However throughput is not helped by the queueing system they employ. The capacity of a system (passengers per hour) can be determined by multiplying the number of servers by the average service time. If the number of arrivals exceeds the capacity, then the queue simply becomes longer and longer. Queues at chip shops or bars are self regulating in the sense that prospective customers simply walk away when the queue becomes to long. But passengers at airports and train stations do not have this option. The same applies to patients at A&E which is why hospital queues are so bad.

The queues at Gare do Nord could easily be reduced by allowing short queues to form at each counter instead of forcing each new passenger to wait at a single point until a counter becomes free. Several seconds are added to the average service time while the officer waits for the next passengers to walk across to his desk. These seconds soon add up while the officers on the end desks get a nice breather between visits.

The managers of our border control people need to get their act together. It is ludicrous that Eurostar are having to deploy extra staff simply to manage the queues.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I prefer single queuing as you then don't wind up behind someone who takes ages

 

[Bookd]

This is why I would have liked to join the Scengen agreement, but that battle seems to be lost.

 

[47513 Severn]

I understand what you are saying about the time lost as people walk to the next desk but I still think a single 'maze' style queue is the better option. The big advantage is everyone is served at the same speed even if it is slow. With individual queues there is always the risk of getting stuck behind a traveller with complex requirements. It can be very frustrating if that happens and you see the other queues moving faster than your own.

What is annoying with a single line is UK Border Agency pointlessly deploying an officer at the head of the queue to direct each passenger to the next free desk a few meters away. Things would move a lot faster if that officer just opened another desk (Portsmouth Port, I'm talking to you!!!)

That said, the Eurostar check in and departure area at Gare de Nord has always seemed grossly inadequate especially when compared with St Pancras.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The queues at Gare do Nord could easily be reduced by allowing short queues to form at each counter instead of forcing each new passenger to wait at a single point until a counter becomes free. Several seconds are added to the average service time while the officer waits for the next passengers to walk across to his desk. These seconds soon add up while the officers on the end desks get a nice breather between visits.

The problem with your suggestion is what happens when in a particular short queue a traveler is from a country requiring a visa to enter the UK or whose documentation is not as it should be. This inevitably takes longer to process leading to the likelihood of queues advancing at different and variable rates. Single queuing is therefore much fairer. As for officers getting a breather I would suggest that is useful in allowing them to maintain their concentration.

Your real issue is the need for people to stand for lengthy periods in the first place. If you were to peruse the appropriate media outlets you would find that pretty well all UK ports of entry suffer from "optimised" staffing levels (ie the minimum the Home Office thinks it can get away with) amongst border control staff and thus queuing becomes almost inevitable. The difference in this case is that the delay happens before the journey over the border rather than after. But that's the price we pay for dealing with the specific immigration control issues affecting the Channel Tunnel.

 

[AndrewE]

Your real issue is the need for people to stand for lengthy periods in the first place. If you were to peruse the appropriate media outlets you would find that pretty well all UK ports of entry suffer from "optimised" staffing levels (ie the minimum the Home Office thinks it can get away with) amongst border control staff and thus queuing becomes almost inevitable. The difference in this case is that the delay happens before the journey over the border rather than after. But that's the price we pay for dealing with the specific immigration control issues affecting the Channel Tunnel.

I think it's clear that the issue is too few border control staff to cope with the peak passenger flows. We may see it either at Paris or Brussels stations, or on arrival at a UK airport, but the fact remains that if "they" know how many people an officer can process per hour and then choose to reduce staffing so that backlogs build up then we have only ourselves to blame. By this I mean that we keep on voting in governments that see reducing the number of public sector employees as a virility test.

Don't shoot the poor sod on the front line, it's no different from a long row of automated ticket gates on a station and only one person to cope with letting people whose tickets "don't work" both on and off the station. Blame the management.
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I understand what you are saying about the time lost as people walk to the next desk but I still think a single 'maze' style queue is the better option..

I agree, I think that almost everywhere (including stations and shops) a single queue feeding service points should be adopted - unless there should clearly be a fast lane (like local tickets for today - cash down and away in a couple of seconds.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another vote for a single queue being best. Obvious electronic signage of which one to go to deals with the issue of it taking too long.

If it takes too long, they just need more staff. Stansted is terrible, for example.
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That said, the Eurostar check in and departure area at Gare de Nord has always seemed grossly inadequate especially when compared with St Pancras.

Gare du Nord is inadequate in its entirety - a horrible station as a whole, in a rough-ish area too (though Bruxelles Midi wins on that one).

 

[Gordon]

That said, the Eurostar check in and departure area at Gare de Nord has always seemed grossly inadequate especially when compared with St Pancras.

This point has come up in threads before and I'll repeat what I've said in the past:
From the outset of the 1994 Channel Tunnel, the French were very reluctant partners in the 'security hyperbole' which the UK insisted on, hence the 'temporary' and 'shoehorned in a corner' nature of the Gare du Nord facilities.

This is because the French traditionally, like all other mainland European administrations, were used to international trains being 'just another train' simply departing from a normal station with no extra requirements.




.

 

[Groningen]

The question is whether this is happening every time or an exception.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is because the French traditionally, like all other mainland European administrations, were used to international trains being 'just another train' simply departing from a normal station with no extra requirements.

The irony of course being that the French later added extra requirements for Thalys.

 

[Senex]

This is why I would have liked to join the Scengen agreement, but that battle seems to be lost.

Our politicians certainly weren't going to agree to that -- it might have made us feel more European, which would never do!

I sympathise greatly with the OP -- the facilities at the Gare du Nord were provided in the expectation that there would be on-train controls for as long as those were needed and that no more would really be needed at the EST platforms than at, say, the Thalys platforms. Only, as we all know, the British weren't having any of that.
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Gare du Nord is inadequate in its entirety - a horrible station as a whole, in a rough-ish area too (though Bruxelles Midi wins on that one).

Totally agree -- GdN is vile. Brussels South is a decent station in a lousy area, but at least there's the Ibis straight across the road.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I understand what you are saying about the time lost as people walk to the next desk but I still think a single 'maze' style queue is the better option. The big advantage is everyone is served at the same speed even if it is slow. With individual queues there is always the risk of getting stuck behind a traveller with complex requirements. It can be very frustrating if that happens and you see the other queues moving faster than your own.

What is annoying with a single line is UK Border Agency pointlessly deploying an officer at the head of the queue to direct each passenger to the next free desk a few meters away. Things would move a lot faster if that officer just opened another desk (Portsmouth Port, I'm talking to you!!!)

That said, the Eurostar check in and departure area at Gare de Nord has always seemed grossly inadequate especially when compared with St Pancras.

I wasn't suggesting abandoning the idea of a single queue completely. What I was suggesting is dividing the front of the single queue into short queues of 1 or 2 people at each counter simply to reduce the idle time as each server waits for the next passenger to walk across.

Sometimes of course you will get unlucky and get stuck behind somebody with a dodgy visa. But the delay should not be excessive. And surely this is better than having to stand up for an hour or so waiting in lines at Gare du Nord because there are too few officers on duty to cope with the numbers? Such a system is used for outbound security checks at Manchester Airport but not for inbound passport checks.

My poor wife with her arthritic knee is threatening never to travel with Eurostar again.

 

[theageofthetra]

I wasn't suggesting abandoning the idea of a single queue completely. What I was suggesting is dividing the front of the single queue into short queues of 1 or 2 people at each counter simply to reduce the idle time as each server waits for the next passenger to walk across.

Sometimes of course you will get unlucky and get stuck behind somebody with a dodgy visa. But the delay should not be excessive. And surely this is better than having to stand up for an hour or so waiting in lines at Gare du Nord because there are too few officers on duty to cope with the numbers? Such a system is used for outbound security checks at Manchester Airport but not for inbound passport checks.

My poor wife with her arthritic knee is threatening never to travel with Eurostar again.

It is precisely experiences such as yours as to why regular business and occasional tourist passengers are abandoning Eurostar in droves.

 

[PeterC]

I wasn't suggesting abandoning the idea of a single queue completely. What I was suggesting is dividing the front of the single queue into short queues of 1 or 2 people at each counter simply to reduce the idle time as each server waits for the next passenger to walk across.

Many years ago I worked on O&M for a clearing bank that researched this in detail. Single queue marginally increases the average wait for each customer but eliminates the longest waits. Customer perception is, incorrectly, that they don't wait for as long.

 

[causton]

Many years ago I worked on O&M for a clearing bank that researched this in detail. Single queue marginally increases the average wait for each customer but eliminates the longest waits. Customer perception is, incorrectly, that they don't wait for as long.

In a previous job I was told that a single long queue can turn customers away, seeing one queue of 12 or so people waiting... so we split them up into one queue per cashier, so 4 queues of 4 people. As people see a queue of 3 or 4 people and not 12 people, they are less likely to turn around and walk away.(Also, if someone is slower at getting through the queue, the customer does not blame the staff member, but blames themselves, as they chose that particular queue to get in. This is the mentality of the place I worked :roll: ) - It is the same in McDonalds, they always try and spread people out so they queue one per cashier.

 

[BestWestern]

Surely the answer is to have a 'side desk' where anything not routine (and quick to process) is deferred across to, leaving the main desks to deal efficiently with the vasy majority who pass straight through?

 

[Ianno87]

The lounge at Gare du Nord is so small that there's no point having lots of people on security at the moment to pass people through - it would just make the lounge ridiculously crowded instead! As my then pregnant wife found out earlier in the year, so crowded that not even grown adult men would offer her a seat (yes, we did ask nicely - an older lady eventually offered instead)

Better to use security as the bottleneck and tell some people to come back later. It can get so crowded that even accessing the shops becomes difficuly - which loses revenue.

 

[philjo]

In a previous job I was told that a single long queue can turn customers away, seeing one queue of 12 or so people waiting... so we split them up into one queue per cashier, so 4 queues of 4 people. As people see a queue of 3 or 4 people and not 12 people, they are less likely to turn around and walk away.(Also, if someone is slower at getting through the queue, the customer does not blame the staff member, but blames themselves, as they chose that particular queue to get in. This is the mentality of the place I worked :roll: ) - It is the same in McDonalds, they always try and spread people out so they queue one per cashier.

Our old Crown Post office (before they closed it) used to have one queue per cashier so there were about 8 different queues. I always seemed to end up in the slowest queue with person in front having multiple complicated transactions (especially at tax disc/tv licence time). They then switched to a single queue system and everyone moved much quicker as the casheirs that had several quick transactions made up for those doing one long transaction in the same time.

Do Eurostar have an agreement with Border Force over how many staff are working at any specific time (e.g. based on how many trains are leaving in the next hour) ?

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Don't travel Eurostar very often, but found our Border Agency staff to be surly and disinterested when passing through Gare du Nord in August.

Makes a change to Border Agency staff at Heathrow who are are surly and seemingly paranoid

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Eurostar themselves don't help things.

On our last trip, a Eurostar had failed, so pax who were scheduled on this train were being held to one side until everyone gor the following train had checked in, then being allocated the empty seats.

This meant 25 minute delays as people were only released through to go thtough security and passports etc. after the train was booked to leave. While those of us for later trains were just sat in the lounge watching them run past.

Far easier to give us the empty seats on the first train when we were only 30 seconds from the platform and let the delayed pax have ours.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There has been more chaos at Nord this morning; apparently some brainless type tried to take a WW2 shell home...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely the answer is to have a 'side desk' where anything not routine (and quick to process) is deferred across to, leaving the main desks to deal efficiently with the vasy majority who pass straight through?

Isn't that effectively how the autogates used at airports are meant to work?

 

[Giugiaro]

... the French were very reluctant partners in the 'security hyperbole' which the UK insisted on, ...

... all other mainland European administrations were used to international trains being 'just another train' simply departing from a normal station with no extra requirements.

And Brexit is just around the corner.

The irony of course being that the French later added extra requirements for Thalys.

Wasn't the Thalys privately owned?

... the facilities at the Gare du Nord were provided in the expectation that there would be on-train controls for as long as those were needed and that no more would really be needed at the EST platforms than at, say, the Thalys platforms.

Basically what was done at times with, for example, the Sudexpress?
The problem is that the Eurostar would have to stop short before the Eurotunnel for border control, and I think having 1 hour stops mid-journey is good advertising in Highspeed rail.

 

[Senex]

The problem is that the Eurostar would have to stop short before the Eurotunnel for border control, and I think having 1 hour stops mid-journey is good advertising in Highspeed rail.

My understanding was that the idea was for border staff to work through, London to Paris and v.v.

 

[Giugiaro]

I can't recall how it was done before the Schengen area was applied.

Currently, if there are any issues within the EU, like a terrorist attack or an epidemic, the Sudexpress and the Lusitania both take their border control at the border stations, where officers go over the train with a fine tooth comb. Since Spain brakes its services in the border with France (because SNCF is a total d**k) *ahem* I don't really now how it's done in that border, but probably they stop the train at Irún/Hendaye before making it cross the border, or passengers have to cross it by foot. IDK

 

[crehld]

There has been more chaos at Nord this morning; apparently some brainless type tried to take a WW2 shell home...

Well that will explain why I was stopped at the bottom of the escalator this afternoon by someone holding an A3 poster of a picture of a WW2 shell with a big red line through it and the word "INTERDIT" plastered all over it.
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In terms of the passport control I was checked by French authorities first. There were only two booths open. The queue was efficient and continuously moving. When it was my turn it took no longer then 20 second to check my credentials. The French border police were polite and professional. I was met with a "bonsoir monsieur", asked if I had a nice trip to France and received a "bon voyage et bonne soirée" as I left. Then it was time for the UK border check. Five booths open, but it took 25 minutes to get to the front of the queue, followed by another 2 minutes in front of the border agent who felt it was far more import to discuss how cold it was in the booth with their colleague rather than pay attention to me and check my passport. The agent only made eye contact once, I guess to confirm I was the person in the photograph, and spoke to me only was once to say "here, take it back!". The tone was rude and abrupt. Not a good advertisement for our country quite frankly.
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Surely the answer is to have a 'side desk' where anything not routine (and quick to process) is deferred across to, leaving the main desks to deal efficiently with the vasy majority who pass straight through?

For the French border checks at St Pancras they have the automatic gates now (with the traditional desk to deal with those who don't have the e-Passports / the non-routine stuff) and they work an absolute treat - it takes 10 seconds max.

 

[Senex]

Then it was time for the UK border check. Five booths open, but it took 25 minutes to get to the front of the queue, followed by another 2 minutes in front of the border agent who felt it was far more import to discuss how cold it was in the booth with their colleague rather than pay attention to me and check my passport. The agent only made eye contact once, I guess to confirm I was the person in the photograph, and spoke to me only was once to say "here, take it back!". The tone was rude and abrupt. Not a good advertisement for our country quite frankly.

That sounds about right for British officialdom wherever one encounters it.

 

[Greenback]

I've never been very impressed with UK Immigration and Border Control staff. They seem to think that abruptness if not downright rudeness is an essential requirement for the role. Perhaps they think it helps to deter criminals and terrorists? Clearly, it doesn't, it just irritates many travellers unnecessarily.

 

[375610]

Absolutely agree, I've always found the French staff to be extremely funny and polite or extremely disinterested. The British staff are normally very very rude, with exceptions, of course.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't travel Eurostar very often, but found our Border Agency staff to be surly and disinterested when passing through Gare du Nord in August.

Makes a change to Border Agency staff at Heathrow who are are surly and seemingly paranoid

Interesting, as I find the ones at Luton to be polite and friendly. You occasionally get jokes off them, and I've had a "welcome home" more than once.
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That sounds about right for British officialdom wherever one encounters it.

American ones are worse. I was threatened with deportation for forgetting to sign my landing card. "Could you sign the card please, sir[1]" would have done.

[1] I'm not asking for deference, it's just a usual term used in the US.
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Wasn't the Thalys privately owned?

It's a joint venture of SNCF and SNCB isn't it (and complete with the SNCF attitude problem, too)? But that doesn't overly matter in the context of the French Government adding security controls (which, notably, the German Government refused to do).