A query spinning-off from the recent "Railway History & Nostalgia" thread Lines Not Nationalised in 1948 , and discussion in that thread about the Talyllyn Railway, and how it came about that this line fell into that category. The matter about which I am curious, is admittedly something definitely small and obscure pretty well in the How many angels... bracket but it would be interesting if anyone well-versed in the Talyllyns history, might shed light on it.
Im going by L.T.C. Rolts Railway Adventure; in which he states that around the end of World War II, both the Talyllyns locos No. 1 Talyllyn and No. 2 Dolgoch -- were in such very poor shape that a major overhaul for at least one, was imperative. One of the two was chosen, viz. No. 2; which was sent in April 1945 for overhaul at the Atlas Foundry, Shrewsbury; and for twelve months the railway was closed. Per the book, this applies for sure to the passenger service, which we learn recommenced at the start of the 1946 summer season.
A related point, occurs to me. Re the Bryn Eglwys slate quarry, serving which had been the reason for the railways coming to exist in the first place: Rolts book tells us that in 1946... quarrying operations finally ceased at Bryn Eglwys, although for some time after a small quantity of slate continued to travel down to Tywyn as existing stocks were cleared. This raises for me, a question which Rolt does not seem to clarify in the book: what happened with slate extracted at Bryn Eglwys in the period while quarrying there was still going on; during the time-span mentioned above, spring 1945 to spring 1946, while loco no. 2 was away being overhauled? Was the slate brought down to Tywyn by road during that period; and indeed after?
Or; the book indicates that no. 1 Talyllyn was though in terrible condition basically operable, even if using her was fraught with danger of boiler-related disaster. It is mentioned that No. 2, shortly after her return from overhaul in spring 1946, became derailed up the line; so that No.1 had to be steamed and driven to her rescue. The scenario suggests itself: though passenger workings by No. 1 in the dreadful shape she was in, were not to be thought of was she perhaps used during her sister locos 1945 46 absence, for slate trains full down, empty up as required?
The late John Snell, in his fascinating memoir Mixed Gauges , tells of his visiting and travelling on the Talyllyn Railway in spring 1947; and seeing at Tywyn (Wharf) station, three loaded slate wagons which had presumably recently come down from the quarry (this would be, one takes it, during the period after quarry closure, when stocks of slate were being cleared). Might this be taken as evidence suggesting that slate traffic by rail had continued throughout, even during the year which it took to overhaul No. 2 ? As per the way in which these things most often happen going back to rail working after a year of transporting the slate by road, would seem an unlikely turn of events. Though Sir Henry Haydn Jones was, it appears, out of the common run of railway owners: financial efficiency and viability, was not his top priority.
Mention was made in the Lines Not Nationalised... thread, and in Rolts Railway Adventure, of the Ordnance Survey map current as at 1947 / 48, showing the Talyllyn Railways stations as closed which might have misled those who shaped the nationalisation programme, into thinking that the railway was defunct. Id speculate that the OS had been on the ball circa 1945, in being aware that the railway was not operating passenger services, and in marking accordingly; but had been less so a little later, in failing to realise that a summer passenger service had resumed in 1946.
Would be interested in anyones thoughts; and especially, factual information which might give any clarification on these issues.
Im going by L.T.C. Rolts Railway Adventure; in which he states that around the end of World War II, both the Talyllyns locos No. 1 Talyllyn and No. 2 Dolgoch -- were in such very poor shape that a major overhaul for at least one, was imperative. One of the two was chosen, viz. No. 2; which was sent in April 1945 for overhaul at the Atlas Foundry, Shrewsbury; and for twelve months the railway was closed. Per the book, this applies for sure to the passenger service, which we learn recommenced at the start of the 1946 summer season.
A related point, occurs to me. Re the Bryn Eglwys slate quarry, serving which had been the reason for the railways coming to exist in the first place: Rolts book tells us that in 1946... quarrying operations finally ceased at Bryn Eglwys, although for some time after a small quantity of slate continued to travel down to Tywyn as existing stocks were cleared. This raises for me, a question which Rolt does not seem to clarify in the book: what happened with slate extracted at Bryn Eglwys in the period while quarrying there was still going on; during the time-span mentioned above, spring 1945 to spring 1946, while loco no. 2 was away being overhauled? Was the slate brought down to Tywyn by road during that period; and indeed after?
Or; the book indicates that no. 1 Talyllyn was though in terrible condition basically operable, even if using her was fraught with danger of boiler-related disaster. It is mentioned that No. 2, shortly after her return from overhaul in spring 1946, became derailed up the line; so that No.1 had to be steamed and driven to her rescue. The scenario suggests itself: though passenger workings by No. 1 in the dreadful shape she was in, were not to be thought of was she perhaps used during her sister locos 1945 46 absence, for slate trains full down, empty up as required?
The late John Snell, in his fascinating memoir Mixed Gauges , tells of his visiting and travelling on the Talyllyn Railway in spring 1947; and seeing at Tywyn (Wharf) station, three loaded slate wagons which had presumably recently come down from the quarry (this would be, one takes it, during the period after quarry closure, when stocks of slate were being cleared). Might this be taken as evidence suggesting that slate traffic by rail had continued throughout, even during the year which it took to overhaul No. 2 ? As per the way in which these things most often happen going back to rail working after a year of transporting the slate by road, would seem an unlikely turn of events. Though Sir Henry Haydn Jones was, it appears, out of the common run of railway owners: financial efficiency and viability, was not his top priority.
Mention was made in the Lines Not Nationalised... thread, and in Rolts Railway Adventure, of the Ordnance Survey map current as at 1947 / 48, showing the Talyllyn Railways stations as closed which might have misled those who shaped the nationalisation programme, into thinking that the railway was defunct. Id speculate that the OS had been on the ball circa 1945, in being aware that the railway was not operating passenger services, and in marking accordingly; but had been less so a little later, in failing to realise that a summer passenger service had resumed in 1946.
Would be interested in anyones thoughts; and especially, factual information which might give any clarification on these issues.