The nature of Northern Connect

[Bornin1980s]

Okay, I'm back. I actually live in Middlesbrough. While I am inclined to wish that everyone thing was as simple as the Glasgow Subway, I do see the point of limited stop services for inter-urban transport. I was shocked, for instance, to discover that the term 'Cross-country' originally referred to all InterCity services which didn't terminate in London (i.e. a very small minority). However, I think having only limited stop trains on routes can create problems. For instance, Yarm doesn't have a convenient connection to Darlington, as nothing stops at both Eaglescliffe and Yarm.

As the Teesside Airport, my region recently elected the 'Metro Mayor' who had made buying back the airport his main campaign issue (despite being a Tory). It may be a long shot, but really hope to see the airport restored some day, with low-cost flights to Heathrow and Europe, direct flights to America, a new viewing platform, a restored bus connection – and few trains passing it's station without stopping. We have had nearly all of this in the past, and the airport could be a huge potential employer.

I have no objection to the use of 158s on the Tyne Valley line itself. After all, the line speed is limited to 60mph. I like the idea of doing the Newcastle connection via the East Coast mainline, freeing up paths for the local trains through Hartlepool, but... Wouldn't that be a job for a 195? A slower 158 might cause disruption to the 125mph trains of the East Coast service.

Actually, my biggest concern all along has been; if all Northern Connect trains are limited stop inter-urbans, that would mean a new service which replaces nothing, a bit like Grand Central, with its bizarre stopping patterns. Now, if all the brand-new 195s are given to an entirely new additional service (which I would be using), that means the new trains will do nothing to replace the Pacers. Don't get me wrong, I actually want to be involved in preserving a Pacer. The reason they have to be replaced is that the legislation is caught up with them, meaning they can't even be used as standby units. Now, will the 195's do anything to actually replaced the Pacers?

 

[lejog]

Actually, my biggest concern all along has been; if all Northern Connect trains are limited stop inter-urbans, that would mean a new service which replaces nothing, a bit like Grand Central, with its bizarre stopping patterns. Now, if all the brand-new 195s are given to an entirely new additional service (which I would be using), that means the new trains will do nothing to replace the Pacers. Don't get me wrong, I actually want to be involved in preserving a Pacer. The reason they have to be replaced is that the legislation is caught up with them, meaning they can't even be used as standby units. Now, will the 195's do anything to actually replaced the Pacers?

1. Many of the Northern Connect services are not new Northern routes, but will see 195s replacing Sprinters/Pacers on existing routes e.g. York - Blackpool, 2tph Leeds to Man Victoria, 1tph Leeds to Sheffield, Barrow/Windermere to Man Airport etc. There will be an internal cascade of Sprinters from these routes to non Connect services, replacing Pacers.
2. There will also be cascades from other TOCs into Northern of 150s,156s,158s and 170s, again replacing Pacers.
3. I'm not going to attempt the arithmetic to provide totals, although some have tried on the board. Its sufficient to say that Northern have agreed a Train Plan with the DfT (which is not in the public domain) that satisfies their contractual service requirements and capacity requirements (which are both public).

 

[43074]

3. I'm not going to attempt the arithmetic to provide totals, although some have tried on the board. Its sufficient to say that Northern have agreed a Train Plan with the DfT (which is not in the public domain) that satisfies their contractual service requirements and capacity requirements (which are both public).

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../file/594494/northern-franchise-agreement.pdf
It's all in here, p144 onwards.

 

[lejog]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../file/594494/northern-franchise-agreement.pdf
It's all in here, p144 onwards.

Well not quite all, the rolling stock numbers in/out doesn't show the degree of the internal cascade, in fact the bare numbers would on the face of it seem to back Bornin1980s concern as the number of cascaded units in is less than the number of Pacers/153s out.

The Train Plan (p97 of the same document) which shows the planned class and formation of all the trains Northern have diagrammed would show it all, if it were public.

 

[Tetchytyke]

if all Northern Connect trains are limited stop inter-urbans, that would mean a new service which replaces nothing, a bit like Grand Central, with its bizarre stopping patterns. Now, if all the brand-new 195s are given to an entirely new additional service (which I would be using), that means the new trains will do nothing to replace the Pacers.

Many of the Connect services won't be brand new, they will be an enhancement of an existing service.

Take the Tyne Valley. Currently most daytime trains run semi-fast, calling at MetroCentre, Prudhoe, Hexham and Haltwhistle only. This will become Connect. The stopper will be extended from Hexham, and will be the "new" service, but really just an extension of an existing service.

It works on cascading. The new 195s will displace 158s from the highest tier of Northern services. Those displaced 158s will displace 150s and 156s down the pecking order too, and those displaced 150s and 156s will displace the 142s and 144s off the bottom rung.

But I thought that this was what Transpennine Express was supposed to be – giving some relatively upmarket services on “Provincial” routes across northern England.

We don’t need up to four brandings on the one route (common or garden Northern, Northern Connect, quasi-intercity Transpennine, proper Intercity).

This is the consequence of hiving out the express services in the north into the TPE franchise, nothing more.

Back in the day, TPE was RRNE's premium brand, and was used away from what is now the TPE network (e.g. Leeds-Blackpool, Leeds-Carlisle-Glasgow). RRNW had their own premium brand, although FNW got rid of the separate branding when they brought the 175s in.

These Connect trains would work best under a TPE-style brand, except they can't use TPE as the premium brand because that's now a separate company. So they have to bring another brand in to differentiate the services.

I still fundamentally disagree with TPE being a separate franchise, and think the biggest mistake in the north was merging the rumps of RRNE and RRNW into Northern. It was clearly only ever about sticking all the basket case routes into one company.

 

[Tetchytyke]

the number of cascaded units in is less than the number of Pacers/153s out.

My fag packet calculation is that, in terms of trainsets, it's the same number (120) out and in. And the trains coming in- a mixture of 150s, 156s and 170s- have more seats than the 142s, 144s and 153s going out.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Somewhere i did the sums, the number of trains is not increasing much. But the number of carriages improves significantly, and the length of these increases even more.

My post is somewhere on here.

 

[lejog]

Well not quite all, the rolling stock numbers in/out doesn't show the degree of the internal cascade, in fact the bare numbers would on the face of it seem to back Bornin1980s concern as the number of cascaded units in is less than the number of Pacers/153s out.

My fag packet calculation is that, in terms of trainsets, it's the same number (120) out and in. And the trains coming in- a mixture of 150s, 156s and 170s- have more seats than the 142s, 144s and 153s going out.

Either we are talking at cross purposes or there is something very wrong with my fag packet, but my fag packet says that the number of cascaded DMU trainsets in by 2019 is not 120.

 

[Tetchytyke]

my fag packet says that the number of cascaded DMU trainsets in by 2019 is not 120.

Trains out:

142 - 79
144 (2 car) - 13
144 (3 car) - 10
153 - 18

Total 120

Trains in:
150 - 46
158 - 16
156 - 10
170 - 48

Total 120.

That's from the franchise agreement anyway. I'm not sure how much has changed.