GWR Class 800

[YorkshireBear]

I too am glad to see that Pullman services are to be retained on the new trains.

It is however IMHO a most regrettable downgrade to remove buffets. A so called intercity train with only a trolley for standard class.
On another forum some years ago I proffered as an opinion, and later stated as a fact that "the new trains wont have buffets"
Such negative views were widely criticised "how do you know, the design is not yet finalised" and so on.
The new trains are now being built and some will soon be in service, they do not have buffets. What a surprise.
Just how far along a full length train will a trolley get, before running out of supplies ?
And most of the fleet are half length and will allegedly run in pairs when required, meaning that the trolley will be in the other half, (no gangways between units on new trains remember)

It was an "essiential requirement" of the design of the new trains that a buffet could be retrofitted in the future, but I don't think that anyone really believes that it will happen.
Some of the criticism was deflected by stating that a second batch of new trains were being built for longer distance services to Cornwall and that these "could" have buffets. Well in theory they COULD but they WONT.

Welcome to the future.

I personally think there is a tendency amongst rail enthusiasts to over state the importance and value in buffets to normal passengers.

For instance my wife who has no interest at all in railways much prefers a trolley so she doesn't worry about her belongings.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Such negative views were widely criticised "how do you know, the design is not yet finalised" and so on.
The new trains are now being built and some will soon be in service, they do not have buffets. What a surprise.

It sounds like (unless you offered evidence at the time) that you were being criticised for saying this as if it was a fact, rather than an educated guess. Just because it turned out to be right doesn't mean that it was a fact.

If I had guessed that the Tories would win a majority in 2015, without offering any evidence but claiming that it was a fact, then I would rightly have been criticised.

 

[broadgage]

It sounds like (unless you offered evidence at the time) that you were being criticised for saying this as if it was a fact, rather than an educated guess. Just because it turned out to be right doesn't mean that it was a fact.

If I had guessed that the Tories would win a majority in 2015, without offering any evidence but claiming that it was a fact, then I would rightly have been criticised.

Well I did have SOME evidence, namely published drawings of the internal fit out of the new trains !
This was countered by those who stated that the layout was "only one possibility" and had not yet been finalised.

 

[asylumxl]

I personally think there is a tendency amongst rail enthusiasts to over state the importance and value in buffets to normal passengers.

For instance my wife who has no interest at all in railways much prefers a trolley so she doesn't worry about her belongings.

Quite. Passengers seem fine with the trolleys making their way up and down the trains on the East Coast.

 

[jon0844]

So the catering arrangements will be similar in standard class as Cross Country then? There's a trolley but if the train is overcrowded it won't be able to get through the train so you will have to get to it, if you can. If you can't tough.

I know you can bring food and drink on the train however this is a retrograde move in my opinion.

To be fair, if the train is so busy you can't get to the trolley you probably couldn't get to the buffet either.

 

[ainsworth74]

Quite. Passengers seem fine with the trolleys making their way up and down the trains on the East Coast.

I haven't seen a trolley in a while since the changes to crewing on VTEC. It seems to be the first thing to go if there aren't enough hands around (which there usually aren't anymore).

 

[asylumxl]

I haven't seen a trolley in a while since the changes to crewing on VTEC. It seems to be the first thing to go if there aren't enough hands around (which there usually aren't anymore).

I don't use it very often, only every few months to see family in Scotland, but I've seen the trolley every time. My experiences probably aren't representative I suppose.

 

[Envoy]

I saw the green GWR one for the first time yesterday. I thought the livery was awful - reminded me of some old East German train in the communist era. Dingy and dull. I really do wonder how many people were consulted before this dreadful choice was made?

 

[YorkshireBear]

I saw the green GWR one for the first time yesterday. I thought the livery was awful - reminded me of some old East German train in the communist era. Dingy and dull. I really do wonder how many people were consulted before this dreadful choice was made?

Beauty as ever, is in the eye of the beholder, i think it looks great.

 

[swt_passenger]

I saw the green GWR one for the first time yesterday. I thought the livery was awful - reminded me of some old East German train in the communist era. Dingy and dull. I really do wonder how many people were consulted before this dreadful choice was made?

Consult about a livery? When did that ever happen?

 

[Envoy]

Consult about a livery? When did that ever happen?

Well, you would think that they should get views on such an important decision. Somebody posted a picture of the green one at Paddington and it looked quire nice. They must have doctored the picture in their computer or the white balance on the camera was not accurate - but it looked a darn sight better than the real thing. Don’t know what IKB or Sir Daniel Gooch would make of it - having their names on a Japanese train!

 

[jimm]

Well I did have SOME evidence, namely published drawings of the internal fit out of the new trains !
This was countered by those who stated that the layout was "only one possibility" and had not yet been finalised.

And at the time that was the case - there was the possibility of fitting a buffet - and guess what Virgin is having fitted on the East Coast sets - a buffet/shop...:roll:

GWR has opted not to have a buffet - probably with the DfT taking a close interest, given its insistence that the GW allocation of Class 800s should keep the interior trim picked by civil servants, again as opposed to Virgin which gets to pick its own seat colours.

 

[Mordac]

So the catering arrangements will be similar in standard class as Cross Country then? There's a trolley but if the train is overcrowded it won't be able to get through the train so you will have to get to it, if you can. If you can't tough.

I know you can bring food and drink on the train however this is a retrograde move in my opinion.

Isn't that the same with a buffet, though? If the train is too crowded, you can't get to that either. I'm not a fan of the trolley either, FYI, but for reason of limited supply.

 

[800001]

Well, you would think that they should get views on such an important decision. Somebody posted a picture of the green one at Paddington and it looked quire nice. They must have doctored the picture in their computer or the white balance on the camera was not accurate - but it looked a darn sight better than the real thing. Don’t know what IKB or Sir Daniel Gooch would make of it - having their names on a Japanese train!

I think the green looks superb on IEP.

 

[najaB]

I think the green looks superb on IEP.

If it's green then it's an IET.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If it's green then it's an IET.

If it's an 800/801 it's also an IEP (procured by DfT under the IEP).
The 802, though not procured via IEP, is hardly a different train.
They are all part of Hitachi's AT300 (UK) range, which they originally called their Super Express Train.
Anyway, what's in a name?
IET and Azuma are local brand names, differentiating the service more than the trains.
TPE and HT still have to put a name to theirs, but as First TOCs maybe IET will prevail.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I think the green looks superb on IEP.

That door just behind the cab door, is that staff only (and used as an emergency evacuation route)?

 

[najaB]

That door just behind the cab door, is that staff only (and used as an emergency evacuation route)?

Based on the attached, it looks like the cab door and first saloon door are both intended for staff use only. This would make sense, given that they aren't painted in a contrasting colour.

 

[spark001uk]

To be fair, if the train is so busy you can't get to the trolley you probably couldn't get to the buffet either.

Isn't that the same with a buffet, though? If the train is too crowded, you can't get to that either. I'm not a fan of the trolley either, FYI, but for reason of limited supply.

Fair point, but - you can have a dozen or so people stand in the buffet area on HSTs, so in rush hour usually you'll get a load of suits make a beeline for it so at least they can get a drink on their way home.

Will be a bit awkward on the new units as they'll have to find the part of the train the trolley has been hemmed into and try and stand as close as possible! Unless there's a place near the kitchen area perhaps, where the trolley (and some punters) could stand?

 

[Envoy]

If it's an 800/801 it's also an IEP (procured by DfT under the IEP).
The 802, though not procured via IEP, is hardly a different train.
They are all part of Hitachi's AT300 (UK) range, which they originally called their Super Express Train.
Anyway, what's in a name?
IET and Azuma are local brand names, differentiating the service more than the trains.
TPE and HT still have to put a name to theirs, but as First TOCs maybe IET will prevail.

Surely, a HST is a HST and a Voyager is a Voyager no matter who operates it - despite the Voyager name originally coming from Virgin. I think that these new Hitachi express trains should have a single common name.

 

[superalbs]

Surely, a HST is a HST and a Voyager is a Voyager no matter who operates it - despite the Voyager name originally coming from Virgin. I think that these new Hitachi express trains should have a single common name.

Why would they call a train that goes to the west-most station on the network an 'East'?

 

[455driver]

If it's an 800/801 it's also an IEP (procured by DfT under the IEP).
The 802, though not procured via IEP, is hardly a different train.
They are all part of Hitachi's AT300 (UK) range, which they originally called their Super Express Train.
Anyway, what's in a name?
IET and Azuma are local brand names, differentiating the service more than the trains.
TPE and HT still have to put a name to theirs, but as First TOCs maybe IET will prevail.

What does IEP stand for?
What does IET stand for?

An IET is an integral part of the IEP.

 

[kevjs]

Why would they call a train that goes to the west-most station on the network an 'East'?

Why would you put the most southern London Underground station on the Northern Line?

 

[Mordac]

Why would they call a train that goes to the west-most station on the network an 'East'?

A pedant might argue that Londonderry is the west-most station, although a different pedant might say that's not on the same network.

 

[najaB]

...although a different pedant might say that's not on the same network.

Different gauge so different network, I say.

 

[superalbs]

Why would you put the most southern London Underground station on the Northern Line?

I didn't. :P

 

[jimm]

Why would they call a train that goes to the west-most station on the network an 'East'?

They won't get to the westernmost station on the railway network in Great Britain (as opposed to Northern Ireland), unless someone is planning to use them on the West Highland Line.

Penzance is the southernmost station on the network and westernmost one in England - but the westernmost one on the network is Arisaig in Scotland.

 

[Firesprite]

Surely, a HST is a HST and a Voyager is a Voyager no matter who operates it - despite the Voyager name originally coming from Virgin. I think that these new Hitachi express trains should have a single common name.

As the spec was put together by an Civil Service committee. Why not call it a "Camel" after all what is a camel but a horse designed by a committee.

 

[snowball]

Penzance is the southernmost station on the network and westernmost one in England - but the westernmost one on the network is Arisaig in Scotland.

Though for reasons of map projection, anyone who tries to investigate the question using Ordnance Survey national grid references will be misled into thinking Penzance is more westerly.

A similar problem arises if you try to locate the westernmost point of the British mainland - Land's End wrongly appears to be more westerly on the basis of the grid, but the actual most westerly point at Corrachadh Mor, just south of Ardnamurchan Point.

 

[ExTankieAaron]

regarding the catering issue. Yes first class will be supplied from the kitchen but standard have trolley points in cubicals down the train. 1 location in car 2 if 5 car and 2 locations in car 2 and 5 on the 9.