5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[GrimShady]

I wouldn't have thought so: Line speeds are unlikely to change and 158s regularly work in tandem with 153s elsewhere in Britain.

One thing that's always puzzled me about pairing up units/locos of different power ratings. Obviously the power output of a 158 at each notch setting is different from the 153, doesn't that mean that essentially the 158 is pulling more than the 153 is? Wouldn't that put stress of the lesser powered units transmission? Same with locos, wouldn't the lesser machines traction motors would be over speeding?

 

[kilonewton]

True but shouldn't they be thinking about advertising it?

Advertising new stock’s arrival in advance has gone well in the recent past for Scotrail! Better to keep it up the sleeve until a hard date is achievable.

 

[GrimShady]

Advertising new stock’s arrival in advance has gone well in the recent past for Scotrail! Better to keep it up the sleeve until a hard date is achievable.

Very true.

I was thinking more along the lines of improvement coming as opposed to giving dates and and exact product.

 

[mushroomchow]

Very true.

I was thinking more along the lines of improvement coming as opposed to giving dates and and exact product.

Ah yes, the Game of Thrones approach - "it's coming, honest! It's gonna be great! You'll love it when it arrives!"

 

[Rick1984]

A 158 has the added benefit of an extra toilet which means you can definitely rip out the one in 153.

 

[themiller]

A 158 has the added benefit of an extra toilet which means you can definitely rip out the one in 153.

Why would you rip out the toilet instead of just upgrading it with a retention tank? Not all toilets on a train have to be accessible.

 

[Journeyman]

A 158 has the added benefit of an extra toilet which means you can definitely rip out the one in 153.

Yup. The design of the 153 and the layout of various parts makes fitting PRM toilets very difficult and expensive, which is why no-one wants to do it. It's far easier to cascade them away as soon as possible.

 

[mcmad]

Very true.

I was thinking more along the lines of improvement coming as opposed to giving dates and and exact product.

Scotrail are taking a lot of flak just now because of the various long running 'things are going to get better soon' messages around electrification and new/refurb rolling stock none of which has appeared on time to date.

 

[Journeyman]

Scotrail are taking a lot of flak just now because of the various long running 'things are going to get better soon' messages around electrification and new/refurb rolling stock none of which has appeared on time to date.

Fully agree, they need to keep very, very quiet and wait until they have something to unveil. One more unforeseen delay is absolutely not what they want right now, and it's yet another project involving older rolling stock that hasn't covered itself in glory at various times in the past.

 

[Rick1984]

Why would you rip out the toilet instead of just upgrading it with a retention tank? Not all toilets on a train have to be accessible.

Because 2 loos in a three car train should be adequate and the gained space would be useful.

You could even convert it to your mini buffet complete with plumbing!

 

[43096]

Why would you rip out the toilet instead of just upgrading it with a retention tank? Not all toilets on a train have to be accessible.

Because if the 153 is a separate unit it would have to have full PRM compliant toilet installed. Forming a 153 in the middle of a 158 is problematic as the 158 has wider gangways internally.

 

[AndrewE]

...and whatever local signalling or other gizmos that have been installed remain in the two outer cabs - see post 294

It's possible that the units that were split were not fitted with RETB, so it was more straightforward to insert them into the centre of units that already carried RETB equipment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because if the 153 is a separate unit it would have to have full PRM compliant toilet installed. Forming a 153 in the middle of a 158 is problematic as the 158 has wider gangways internally.

It’s not, adapters exist which are used to form 3 car 158s too.

 

[Aictos]

It’s not, adapters exist which are used to form 3 car 158s too.

And besides I think the industry was looking at removing the toilet from the Class 153s as they were intended to run in multiple with other Class 15Xs mainly Class 156s which would have a accessible toilet.

The removal of the toilet from the Class 153 meant they didn't need to fit a accessible toilet to it.

The only hiccup to having a Class 153 in the middle of a Class 158 is nothing to do with a adaptor but rather ensuring the driver knows the formation is limited to 75mph and not try to move at 90mph!

 

[gingertom]

The only hiccup to having a Class 153 in the middle of a Class 158 is nothing to do with a adaptor but rather ensuring the driver knows the formation is limited to 75mph and not try to move at 90mph!

not going to be an issue on the WHL with a max speed of 40mph. OK 60 either side of Dumbarton but the rest is mostly 40 with some slower sections.

 

[43096]

It’s not, adapters exist which are used to form 3 car 158s too.

Well, yes, but it is a definite backwards step from a passenger point of view (catering trolley operatives wouldn’t be enthusiastic either!). One other point: the 153s talked about are Angel’s, whereas the 158s are Porterbrook’s - are they happy with cutting other owner’s vehicles in?

 

[GrimShady]

Well, yes, but it is a definite backwards step from a passenger point of view (catering trolley operatives wouldn’t be enthusiastic either!). One other point: the 153s talked about are Angel’s, whereas the 158s are Porterbrook’s - are they happy with cutting other owner’s vehicles in?

Ditch the trolley and go with micro buffet.

 

[AndrewE]

Ditch the trolley and go with micro buffet.

Irrelevant: Read the thread title!

 

[GrimShady]

Irrelevant: Read the thread title!

Is it?? Do we know for sure there won't be one?

 

[Rick1984]

If you did stick a 153 in the middle of a 158 you'd bizarrely have an AC carriage then a non-AC then another AC!

 

[GrimShady]

If you did stick a 153 in the middle of a 158 you'd bizarrely have an AC carriage then a non-AC then another AC!

That's a very good point! Vestibule door would be required otherwise the AC would be working overtime on a unit that doesn't have the most reliable AC. Assuming the windows were closed on the 153.

Do 158s even have AC in the vestibule area or is it just the saloon?

 

[AndrewE]

That's a very good point! Vestibule door would be required otherwise the AC would be working overtime on a unit that doesn't have the most reliable AC. Assuming the windows were closed on the 153.

Do 158s even have AC in the vestibule area or is it just the saloon?

Does it really matter? Just strip the seats out and get them in service. When do we think it might actually happen? In time for next year's tourist season?

 

[GrimShady]

Does it really matter? Just strip the seats out and get them in service. When do we think it might actually happen? In time for next year's tourist season?

Well it might have a effect on a system that's not the best anyway. If there is AC in the vestibule area it effectively means the 158 has an additional space to cool, would it be able to cope?

I'm not entirely convinced they will strip all the seats out, an entire coach solely dedicated to stowage is quite a lot even if they are busy services. I would expect 50/50 seats and luggage shelving.

I read somewhere that they might be in service this December although I cant say that makes sense. Maybe its to run them in in preparation for the summer?

 

[InOban]

The only mods which could generate a business case which might get past Transport Scotland wouybe the bare minimum. Remove some of the seats, and the toilet. If any more money is available, fit AC, which is being fitted, I think, to the 156s during refurbishment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don’t even need to remove the bog, just lock it.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

Don’t even need to remove the bog, just lock it.

But do make sure that the bog still has a floor, just in case.

 

[AndrewE]

But do make sure that the bog still has a floor, just in case.

Definitely, it would be a crying shame if the product of that bog still - I saw the first "big still"- and read it as an adjective and a noun(!) got lost onto the track. Not that I have a one-track mind, of course... Edinburgh wasn't called Auld Reekie because of the steam engines operating!

 

[380101]

If any more money is available, fit AC, which is being fitted, I think, to the 156s during refurbishment.

No Air Con being fitted to the 156s during refurb. Just new prm compliant toilet, new PIS, new seats, tables and carpets along with new interior side panels and 240v plug sockets and LED strip lights.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Definitely, it would be a crying shame if the product of that bog still - I saw the first "big still"- and read it as an adjective and a noun(!) got lost onto the track. Not that I have a one-track mind, of course... Edinburgh wasn't called Auld Reekie because of the steam engines operating!

I think he was referring to an incident at a preserved railway some time ago whereby a passenger opened the bog door (which should have been locked but wasn't) only to almost step down a big hole onto the track...

 

[AndrewE]

I think he was referring to an incident at a preserved railway some time ago whereby a passenger opened the bog door (which should have been locked but wasn't) only to almost step down a big hole onto the track...

I got that, but my email notification said

But do make sure that the big still has a floor, just in case.

(even though the post doesn't seem to have been edited) and I thought of a big still.