5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[paul1609]

"And pay a tenner for the privilege", they will say, "no chance!"

Especially if the are Scots, every penny a prisoner!

 

[ScotTrains]

Now that Avanti have stopped selling Advance 1st class tickets from Glasgow our usual route now costs 5 times what we used to pay for 1st class! We are therefore looking for alternative destinations for a '1st class' weekend break from Glasgow.
This Scotrail Explorer ticket actually looks quite appealling. I realise it's not officially 1st class but paying extra to sit in an exclusive part of the train, on 'better' seats with antimacassars and complimentary catering is actually more 1st class than on some other operators. If it sounds like a duck....
I've been on the half six train to Oban a few times per year (pre-covid) and every time there has been at least one drunk onboard singing/ shouting etc so the Exporer carriages are a welcome addition to hopefully avoid these 'undesirables'.

The franchise commitment mentioned scenic trains in a 'sperate premium carriage' with tablecloths and breakfast, lunch and dinner hampers. It also mentions special events such as keynote speakers giving talks, whisky and food tasting events etc. Is this still the plan? If so, the premium seated part of the 153 could be far more popular than the bike storage part, especially during the colder months. Perhaps these events will make use of the bike storage space during the winter.

It will be interesting to see what people think of the "larger cushioned seats". Hopefully they are an improvement on the seats on Scotrail 156 units. I find these quite uncomfortable, even on short journeys. A better option would have been to use the old 1st class seats from the turbostars before they went south. These seats were comfortable, reclining and most were still in good condition.

 

[marks87]

A better option would have been to use the old 1st class seats from the turbostars before they went south. These seats were comfortable, reclining and most were still in good condition.

That would have limited them to a 2+1 layout because of the width of those seats.

 

[47827]

The franchise commitment mentioned scenic trains in a 'sperate premium carriage' with tablecloths and breakfast, lunch and dinner hampers. It also mentions special events such as keynote speakers giving talks, whisky and food tasting events etc. Is this still the plan? If so, the premium seated part of the 153 could be far more popular than the bike storage part, especially during the colder months. Perhaps these events will make use of the bike storage space during the winter.

Budget Royal Scotsman on a sprinter then? Better off trying the real thing or failing that hire an SRPS MK1 set. Not sure how these units have got space to do much more than what they do for the current passengers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

People do that with bike reservations?! Cheeky swines...

I am glad to hear the 153s appear to be performing so far, all sounds promising for next year when I will hopefully get to go and play with some rides up that way

Presumably it's a case of "use it or lose it"? Same with seat reservations- if the service has already left the station the reservation starts at, I'm sitting there until someone comes along with the reservation after the crew have moved them.

That would have limited them to a 2+1 layout because of the width of those seats.

In the case of the units that went to Northern even that isn't an option because the first class seats are still in the units, just declassified.

 

[fgwrich]

Presumably it's a case of "use it or lose it"? Same with seat reservations- if the service has already left the station the reservation starts at, I'm sitting there until someone comes along with the reservation after the crew have moved them.

In the case of the units that went to Northern even that isn't an option because the first class seats are still in the units, just declassified.

I believe you’d have a problem taking the First Class seats out of the Northern batch, as they were as far as I’m aware the standard class only batch.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I believe you’d have a problem taking the First Class seats out of the Northern batch, as they were as far as I’m aware the standard class only batch.

Some are, some aren't. See the "Northern Unit Refurbishments" thread for the numbers.

 

[Neptune]

I believe you’d have a problem taking the First Class seats out of the Northern batch, as they were as far as I’m aware the standard class only batch.

All were built as Standard only but SR fitted 170450-457 with FC seats of which Northern received 453-457 which retain them (declassified).

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is to discuss 5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail


If anyone would like to discuss seat preferences, please do so in another thread. There may already be a suitable existing thread; if not, feel free to create a new one. Thanks

 

[alangla]

Oh dear... Is there a shortage just now?

From Journeycheck:

16:36 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban due 19:42
Facilities on the 16:36 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban due 19:42.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
Additional Information:
Sorry this train has fewer carriages than normal. Bike spaces on this service are limited due to the bike carriage being unavailable.
Last Updated :06/10/2021 11:46

 

[47827]

Oh dear... Is there a shortage just now?

From Journeycheck:

16:36 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban due 19:42
Facilities on the 16:36 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban due 19:42.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
Additional Information:
Sorry this train has fewer carriages than normal. Bike spaces on this service are limited due to the bike carriage being unavailable.
Last Updated :06/10/2021 11:46

It was bound to happen at some point given the 153s are a micro fleet.

 

[scotraildriver]

Oh dear... Is there a shortage just now?

From Journeycheck:

16:36 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban due 19:42
Facilities on the 16:36 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban due 19:42.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
Additional Information:
Sorry this train has fewer carriages than normal. Bike spaces on this service are limited due to the bike carriage being unavailable.
Last Updated :06/10/2021 11:46

Ran as booked in the end. 156474/153377.

 

[alangla]

Ran as booked in the end. 156475/153377.

That’s good news. There was an earlier departure also showing the same message about a lack of bike space but it had already been changed to “will run with the expected number of carriages”

 

[paul1609]

I did Tyndrum to Oban and Oban to Helensburgh on 153/6 combos last week. no attempt to sell/ check tickets in either direction although there was catering passing through. What's the betting the 153s don't meet the financial criterion.

 

[alangla]

Thought this might be of interest: looks like one of the photo library providers captured one of the training runs with 2x153 at what appears to be Anniesland https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...rmt-union-rejects-pitiful-pay-offer-nbxd3z92z
It illustrates this Times article on the impending strike action.

 

[GaryBrown156]

Can anybody confirm please what the plans are for the 153's over the winter months?.
Perhaps I have misread something but I thought the general idea behind introducing them was to provide additional capacity for tourists during the summer months?. Obviously demand is going to be a lot less during the winter months so will these units still be operating the Glasgow - Oban route throughout winter or is the plan to store/redeploy them until spring 2022?.

Obviously there aren't many routes around Glasgow which could make use of them but two 153's coupled together would probably provide sufficient capacity for Anniesland via Maryhill services and off peak Glasgow Central to Barrhead if required to fill in for a 156 which is being serviced or whatever.

 

[47827]

Can anybody confirm please what the plans are for the 153's over the winter months?.
Perhaps I have misread something but I thought the general idea behind introducing them was to provide additional capacity for tourists during the summer months?. Obviously demand is going to be a lot less during the winter months so will these units still be operating the Glasgow - Oban route throughout winter or is the plan to store/redeploy them until spring 2022?.

Obviously there aren't many routes around Glasgow which could make use of them but two 153's coupled together would probably provide sufficient capacity for Anniesland via Maryhill services and off peak Glasgow Central to Barrhead if required to fill in for a 156 which is being serviced or whatever.

Imagine they will still be active if more drivers still need to be passed out on them by summer 2022, so even if they aren't used for passengers for a few months there's no reason for them to be idle along with any issues that may arise from inactivity.

 

[Rick1984]

Winter sport activities? Not that I imagine there's much trade for that on the Oban line

 

[mde]

Obviously there aren't many routes around Glasgow which could make use of them but two 153's coupled together would probably provide sufficient capacity for Anniesland via Maryhill services and off peak Glasgow Central to Barrhead if required to fill in for a 156 which is being serviced or whatever.

Given the lack of wheelchair spaces in the 153, I doubt this would ever be an option.

 

[scotraildriver]

I can't see these surviving in the longer term. Despite the constant cries from cyclists and cycling groups about lack of capacity in reality these 153 run empty most of the time. The most biles I've seen was 7 in the middle of summer. There isn't the demand that people said there was. People are also reluctant to pay the £10 charge even though it includes refreshments. Given that any of the West Highland baggage companies will charge £65 to transfer your bike it's really a bit of a bargain. Why should transferring a large bike hundreds of miles be free anyway?

 

[najaB]

The most biles I've seen was 7 in the middle of summer. There isn't the demand that people said there was.

I can't think of anything that's happened over the last 18 months or so that might have reduced demand...

 

[themiller]

I can't see these surviving in the longer term. Despite the constant cries from cyclists and cycling groups about lack of capacity in reality these 153 run empty most of the time. The most biles I've seen was 7 in the middle of summer. There isn't the demand that people said there was. People are also reluctant to pay the £10 charge even though it includes refreshments. Given that any of the West Highland baggage companies will charge £65 to transfer your bike it's really a bit of a bargain. Why should transferring a large bike hundreds of miles be free anyway?

You can’t expect a huge demand in the first year especially as they were in service at the last minute. People generally plan their holidays months in advance. It needs positivity and certainty that the advertised facility will be there when expected. If it’s going to be a toss of a coin whether there’ll be a 153 on the service, prospective passengers won’t chance it. If the facility had been provided by a ‘dumb’ vehicle, it may have been a better bet than a repurposed unit with all of its complexities. However, they are in service and may be a good indicator of the design of new trains for the line.

 

[trebor79]

I can't see these surviving in the longer term. Despite the constant cries from cyclists and cycling groups about lack of capacity in reality these 153 run empty most of the time. The most biles I've seen was 7 in the middle of summer. There isn't the demand that people said there was.

I think a lot of that is because leisure travel wasn't really allowed or encouraged until early summer. Secondly, the ongoing restrictions in Scotland, vaccine passports for certain settings, enforced masking etc are hardly going to entice tourists up from England.
I've done a business trip to Scotland recently but wouldn't even countenance a leisure trip whilst such things are in place. I can't be the only person feeling that way about it.

 

[takno]

I think a lot of that is because leisure travel wasn't really allowed or encouraged until early summer. Secondly, the ongoing restrictions in Scotland, vaccine passports for certain settings, enforced masking etc are hardly going to entice tourists up from England.
I've done a business trip to Scotland recently but wouldn't even countenance a leisure trip whilst such things are in place. I can't be the only person feeling that way about it.

I don't personally disagree with your feeling on travelling here. In terms of what people have actually done however, and based on what I've seen in Edinburgh over the summer and since, more English travellers than usual have been up to Scotland this year, and they have been tending to do things like cycling holidays

Personally I'd still say it's worth waiting til next year to judge. The units were introduced without much notice or publicity in a year when advance planning has been difficult for all sorts of reasons. Next year's usage may look very different.

 

[Techniquest]

I can't see these surviving in the longer term. Despite the constant cries from cyclists and cycling groups about lack of capacity in reality these 153 run empty most of the time. The most biles I've seen was 7 in the middle of summer. There isn't the demand that people said there was. People are also reluctant to pay the £10 charge even though it includes refreshments. Given that any of the West Highland baggage companies will charge £65 to transfer your bike it's really a bit of a bargain. Why should transferring a large bike hundreds of miles be free anyway?

And when did these 153s enter service? Not long enough ago to be judged fairly yet.

The demand IS there, as others have said there's been a lot of things suppressing that demand. I was going to travel to Scotland in September, or at least I wanted to, but the uncertainty of borders and such like rather put me off. The wearing of masks and such like, I've never stopped doing that so it isn't a factor. Spending hundreds of pounds on Advances and hotels though, to find the borders suddenly close to English visitors, with Advances no longer worth the paper they're printed on, that is a BIG factor.

Most of us will be happy to pay the £10 supplement, and I've said since it was announced I would be more than happy to pay that. So that isn't suppressing demand either, despite your claim.

When there's faith in being able to travel north of Carlisle/Berwick, I'm sure there will be plenty more people taking their bikes up to Scotland. I'm keen to do so myself, but right now it's more likely my next holiday will be a walking holiday in Poland or France. There's more confidence in that than there is Scotland.

Call me crazy for that if you will, but I reckon there's plenty of us who feel the same way and I'm just voicing such an opinion on behalf of all of us cautious people.

When things settle down a bit more, yes I will be travelling north and making use of the 153s. Just you wait and see, soon enough they'll end up fully booked and there will be no shortage of people willing to pay the money!