Future TransPennine/Northern Routes

[Jorge Da Silva]

Made this Map using Photoshop of what could be the future TransPennine Express franchise. This mainly includes the current TransPennine commitments and Saltburn, transfer of Liverpool-Nottingham and Liverpool-Leicester which was mentioned in the Modern Railways Magazine as a potential future corridor.
Any other routes or modifications I have missed.

 

[Ken H]

View attachment 56627

Made this Map using Photoshop of what could be the future TransPennine Express franchise. This mainly includes the current TransPennine commitments and Saltburn, transfer of Liverpool-Nottingham and Liverpool-Leicester which was mentioned in the Modern Railways Magazine as a potential future corridor.
Any other routes or modifications I have missed.

leeds-Carlisle/lancaster?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

leeds-Carlisle/lancaster?

Glasgow to Leeds via Lancaster?

Didn’t Northern run a similar service in the early days of Privatization? If so when did it stop?

 

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[Jorge Da Silva]

Liverpool-Birkenhead-chester-Wrexham/Holyhead ?

I can’t see that being a TransPennine Route

What do you think about these corridors:

• Glasgow-Leeds via Lancaster (as mentioned)
  • Either Via Bradford Interchange
  • Or Via Manchester Victoria
• Glasgow-Blackpool
• Glasgow-Nottingham via Sheffield and Manchester Piccadilly
• Leeds-Leicester via Derby

 

[daodao]

Made this Map using Photoshop of what could be the future TransPennine Express franchise. This mainly includes the current TransPennine commitments and Saltburn, transfer of Liverpool-Nottingham and Liverpool-Leicester which was mentioned in the Modern Railways Magazine as a potential future corridor.
Any other routes or modifications I have missed.

My personal view is that TPE's routes should be apportioned to other existing franchises:

• The core TPE route via Standedge should be passed to Northern and treated as a Northern Connect service, with all 1st class accommodation removed/declassified. The extension from Newcastle to Edinburgh should be cancelled as it duplicates other services.
• The route via the Hope Valley to Cleethorpes should be given to the East Midland franchise, with all 1st class accommodation removed/declassified.
• The WCML services from M/c to Scotland should be passed to VWC.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

My personal view is that TPE's routes should be apportioned to other existing franchises:

• The core TPE route via Standedge should be passed to Northern and treated as a Northern Connect service, with all 1st class accommodation removed/declassified. The extension from Newcastle to Edinburgh should be cancelled as it duplicates other services.
• The route via the Hope Valley to Cleethorpes should be given to the East Midland franchise, with all 1st class accommodation removed/declassified.
• The WCML services from M/c to Scotland should be passed to VWC.

I disagree. I think most of the current franchise is fine and the Glasgow-Edinburgh services should remain in the TPX.

 

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[Jorge Da Silva]

Only my opinion.
1) Glasgow-Edinburgh-york-Leeds-Dewsbury-Huddersfield-Manchester Victoria-Manchester Airport (TPE Bi-mode class802)
2) Bradford Interchange-Halifax-Huddersfield-Manchester Victoria-Manchester Airport (TPE DMU class185)

3) GLasgow-Bolton-Manchester Piccadilly-Manchester Airport (TPE EMU class397)

4) Glasgow-Blackpool (Scot rail HST)

5) Glasgow-Nottingham via Sheffield and Manchester Piccadilly (East midland 125mph Bi-mode )
6) Leeds-Leicester via Derby（East midland Bi-mode or class22x or New DMU）


11)Birmingham-Manchester-Leeds-Harrogate・・（Waste line revival）・・Ripon　（Cross_Country/TPE）
12)Manchester-Blackburn-colne・・（Waste line revival）・・Skipton-Leeds/Bradford Forster Square　（TPE）

Only my opinion.

1) There is a lack of capacity between Edinburgh and Newcastle
2) Already happening under Northern Connect
3) Already exists. TransPennine Express will divert Glasgow-Manchester Airport services via Bolton following completion of electrification
4) Its possible and not a bad idea
5) Not a bad idea and could be quite useful to some.
6) Good Idea!
....
11) Interesting...TPE in Birmingham, cant see CrossCountry doing it.
12) Manchester-Leeds via Skipton is a very good corridor to use I would probably add a Blackpool-Colne-Leeds Corridor

Overall though I like your ideas!

 

[krus_aragon]

Liverpool-Birkenhead-chester-Wrexham/Holyhead ?

That's got a lot of overlap with TfW's forthcoming Liverpool - Halton Curve - Chester - Llandudno/Shrewsbury/Cardiff service.

 

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[krus_aragon]

What of the future? Merseyrail extension.

To Wrexham (via Bidston), yes. But it still wouldn't be a potential TPE route, would it?

 

[daodao]

I disagree. I think most of the current franchise is fine and the Glasgow-Edinburgh services should remain in the TPX.

TPE is an unnecessary franchise. It is better to have one operator on routes as it would simplify operations and reduce subsidies. They should also get rid of 1st class as it wastes limited space on the trains and it isn't needed for internal journeys in the north of England.

 

[Aictos]

thanks you.
But not a TPE
London King's Cross-Doncaster-Leeds-Huddersfield
London King's Cross-Retford-Sheffield-Via Barnsley-Leeds
London King's Cross-Grantham-Nottingham
London King's Cross-Grantham-Sleaford-Boston-Skegnes
London King's Cross-Peterborough-Stamford-Oakham-Melton Mowbray

1. Where are all the paths coming from to cater for all these services?

2. It's quicker and there are already direct trains running 2tph between St Pancras and Nottingham so no need for any to use Kings Cross.

3. Again, it's quicker to get a service to Leicester and change there instead of having a direct service to/from Kings Cross for Melton Mowbray plus the platforms there are very short so couldn't take any LNER train.

4. Kings Cross to Leeds via Sheffield and Barnsley will be VERY VERY slow and in any case the LNER services are more then acceptable.

5. Also none of them are TPE routes so why bring them up?

As to future TPE routes how about:

Blackpool North to York being transferred from Northern
Leeds to Carlisle/Lancaster being transferred from Northern

because they are what I would say are TPE routes if not considered for Northern Connect routes with Blackpool North to York becoming half hourly which is a massive increase in seats as it's currently a hourly service.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

1. Where are all the paths coming from to cater for all these services?

2. It's quicker and there are already direct trains running 2tph between St Pancras and Nottingham so no need for any to use Kings Cross.

3. Again, it's quicker to get a service to Leicester and change there instead of having a direct service to/from Kings Cross for Melton Mowbray plus the platforms there are very short so couldn't take any LNER train.

4. Kings Cross to Leeds via Sheffield and Barnsley will be VERY VERY slow and in any case the LNER services are more then acceptable.

5. Also none of them are TPE routes so why bring them up?

As to future TPE routes how about:

Blackpool North to York being transferred from Northern
Leeds to Carlisle/Lancaster being transferred from Northern

because they are what I would say are TPE routes if not considered for Northern Connect routes with Blackpool North to York becoming half hourly which is a massive increase in seats as it's currently a hourly service.

Interesting about Blackpool to York transfer I suppose. Not so much in favour of the latter. It is a slow service and therefor not a candidate for a TransPennine Express service.

 

[xotGD]

Manchester - Sheffield - Doncaster where the train divides. One portion to Cleethorpes as now, the other portion to Hull. 2 x 185.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Manchester - Sheffield - Doncaster where the train divides. One portion to Cleethorpes as now, the other portion to Hull. 2 x 185.

I would transfer the Sheffield-Hull Northern Connect service and extend it to Nottingham

Changed Title to Include future Northern Connect routes as well.

 

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[Jorge Da Silva]

Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes is taking too many stop station . Limit the stop station
Liverpool/Manchester Airport-Manchester Piccadilly-Stockport-Sheffield-Rotherham-Doncaster-Scunthorpe-Grimsby Town- Cleethorpes

I think it is also effective in the next section.
Liverpool/Manchester Airport-Manchester Piccadilly-Stockport-Sheffield-Worksop-Retfordt-Lincoln

Express delivery of both routes is the introduction of additional Class802

I use the service between Manchester and Cleethorpes, as I live in Cleethorpes and I go to Meadowhall, so I have a couple of things to say about your idea.

1) Do you think a Liverpool-Cleethorpes service is needed?
2) I think stops at Manchester Airport-Piccadilly-Stockport-Sheffield-Meadowhall-Doncaster-Scunthorpe-Grimsby Town-Cleethorpes is fine! All fairly well used.
3) Axing Meadowhall would be a mistake (the stop I use)
4) Unless you are going to reinstate Rotherham Masborough (which they should!) then do not add Rotherham to the map as it would take a long time to go round the loop


As for the Liverpool to Lincoln service I am not sure. A Manchester Airport to Lincoln service may be a good option to go with.

 

[Meerkat]

Throwing TPE into Northern and axing first class would surely be an insult to the North?
TPE is the Inter City for the North - fast, premium service.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

TPE is the Inter City for the North - fast, premium service.

Basically yes. The only thing is why have they got a stopping service on the franchise (aka the Manchester-Leeds stopping service)

 

[daodao]

Throwing TPE into Northern and axing first class would surely be an insult to the North?
TPE is the Inter City for the North - fast, premium service.

It would be rational to transfer the Standedge services to Northern, so that they could be integrated with other services in the north of England. There shouldn't be separate Inter-city and local franchises, except for ECML and WCML, and the main cross-country network across Birmingham.

 

[Meerkat]

There shouldn't be separate Inter-city and local franchises, except for ECML and WCML, and the main cross-country network across Birmingham.

Why not? Why should Manc-Leeds travellers not have an Intercity option? Are they lesser citizens than those of Birmingham or Sheffield?

 

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[daodao]

Why not? Why should Manc-Leeds travellers not have an Intercity option? Are they lesser citizens than those of Birmingham or Sheffield?

Journeys between and within the major conurbations of central northern England (Lpl, M/c, Leeds, Sheffield) are relatively short.

 

[Flying Claret]

Interesting about Blackpool to York transfer I suppose. Not so much in favour of the latter. It is a slow service and therefor not a candidate for a TransPennine Express service.

Didn't the York-Blackpool (scarborough) used to be a TPE service?
Are there any plans to make it half-hourly once it becomes a northern connect service?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Didn't the York-Blackpool (scarborough) used to be a TPE service?
Are there any plans to make it half-hourly once it becomes a northern connect service?

I do not recall Blackpool-York being a TPE service but yes it is to become half-hourly and become a Northern Connect.

You may be thinking of Blackpool-Manchester Airport

 

[Flying Claret]

I do not recall Blackpool-York being a TPE service but yes it is to become half-hourly and become a Northern Connect.

You may be thinking of Blackpool-Manchester Airport

Definitely thinking of blackpoo-york/Scarborough as that's my local line (Accrington). Maybe is was northern spirit rather than TPE. Was that different?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Definitely thinking of blackpoo-york/Scarborough as that's my local line (Accrington). Maybe is was northern spirit rather than TPE. Was that different?

Northern Spirit was later renamed Arriva trains Northern (which ran from 1997-2004) in 2001 when the franchise was sold to Arriva from MTL. This was before TPE and Northern franchises existed it was Regional Railways North East (and the other RR North West).

It was all reorganised to make the present Northern and TPE in 2004.