Future TransPennine/Northern Routes

[Meerkat]

Journeys between and within the major conurbations of central northern England (Lpl, M/c, Leeds, Sheffield) are relatively short.

So? Do they not deserve a premium product choice to get them out their BMWs and Audis?
The shortness must make it easier to sell as the extra cost is not so huge in absolute terms

 

[Aictos]

Northern Spirit was later renamed Arriva trains Northern (which ran from 1997-2004) in 2001 when the franchise was sold to Arriva from MTL. This was before TPE and Northern franchises existed it was Regional Railways North East (and the other RR North West).

It was all reorganised to make the present Northern and TPE in 2004.

Not quite, in May 1998 MTL rebranded the Regional Railways North East franchise as Northern Spirit when a livery of turquoise with a lime green stylised italic N across the midsection was introduced.

At the same time, the long distance services ie these connecting Sunderland, Newcastle, Scarborough and Hull with Manchester
, Liverpool and Blackpool were now sub-branded under the TransPennine Express banner with rolling stock painted in a base colour of maroon with a gold stylised italic N across the midsection.

So you could say that technically TPE has been in existence since May 1998 which then in Feb 2004 then became a franchise in it's own right.

I do not recall Blackpool-York being a TPE service but yes it is to become half-hourly and become a Northern Connect.

I didn't realise that Blackpool to York was going to be a half hourly service which is long overdue as a result of becoming a Northern Connect service.

Does this mean the Class 158s are staying on that route or are they getting new trains?

 

[Japan0913]

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[Flying Claret]

Not quite, in May 1998 MTL rebranded the Regional Railways North East franchise as Northern Spirit when a livery of turquoise with a lime green stylised italic N across the midsection was introduced.

At the same time, the long distance services ie these connecting Sunderland, Newcastle, Scarborough and Hull with Manchester
, Liverpool and Blackpool were now sub-branded under the TransPennine Express banner with rolling stock painted in a base colour of maroon with a gold stylised italic N across the midsection.

So you could say that technically TPE has been in existence since May 1998 which then in Feb 2004 then became a franchise in it's own right.



I didn't realise that Blackpool to York was going to be a half hourly service which is long overdue as a result of becoming a Northern Connect service.

Does this mean the Class 158s are staying on that route or are they getting new trains?

So blackpoo - scarborough was TPE for a period then...?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

So blackpoo - scarborough was TPE for a period then...?

I think it is Liverpool to Scarborough, Hull-Manchester, Newcastle/Sunderland/Manchester and also Manchester-Blackpool

 

[Bevan Price]

So blackpoo - scarborough was TPE for a period then...?

No, but TPE branded Class 158s tended to stray onto other routes before the great sell-off, including York/Leeds - Blackpool & Newcastle - Carlisle. .

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

No, but TPE branded Class 158s tended to stray onto other routes before the great sell-off, including York/Leeds - Blackpool & Newcastle - Carlisle. .

Thanks for the info.

 

[158756]

I didn't realise that Blackpool to York was going to be a half hourly service which is long overdue as a result of becoming a Northern Connect service.

Does this mean the Class 158s are staying on that route or are they getting new trains?

Unfortunately I'm certain this is not the case. It'll be 1tph with (mostly) new trains. Hopefully it will eventually reach Blackpool again. Wouldn't bet on it though

 

[Aictos]

Unfortunately I'm certain this is not the case. It'll be 1tph with (mostly) new trains. Hopefully it will eventually reach Blackpool again. Wouldn't bet on it though

As far as I can understand of the franchise commitments, Accrington to name just one station on the network will still the following changes:

1tph Blackpool South to Colne will become 1tph Blackpool South to Preston/1tph Preston to Colne

1tph York to Blackpool North will become 1tph Leeds to Preston/1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Blackpool via Preston, 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Blackpool North and 1tph Manchester Airport to Blackpool North

As well as a new 1tph Blackburn to Southport via Manchester Victoria.

With Class 195s coming in on the York to Blackpool North services hence wondering what's going to happen to the Class 158s.

 

[158756]

As far as I can understand of the franchise commitments, Accrington to name just one station on the network will still the following changes:

1tph Blackpool South to Colne will become 1tph Blackpool South to Preston/1tph Preston to Colne

1tph York to Blackpool North will become 1tph Leeds to Preston/1tph Liverpool Lime Street to Blackpool via Preston, 1tph Manchester Piccadilly to Blackpool North and 1tph Manchester Airport to Blackpool North

As well as a new 1tph Blackburn to Southport via Manchester Victoria.

With Class 195s coming in on the York to Blackpool North services hence wondering what's going to happen to the Class 158s.

The 158s are all staying at Northern, but if they remain based in Leeds they won't be seen much in Lancashire.

The point I was making was that the frequency of trains at Accrington etc is not going to change from before the franchise started (the Manchester service already existing but not being formally part of the previous franchise).

 

[Flying Claret]

What's the rationale for truncating the Blackpool-York, to Preston-Leeds? Is it punctuality? Its usually a pretty reliable service.

I presume the removal of blackpool is due to not wanting to run DMU's under the wires? But...that service (at weekends) is full of Yorkshire folk heading to Blackpool. Can't see that being popular...

 

[158756]

What's the rationale for truncating the Blackpool-York, to Preston-Leeds? Is it punctuality? Its usually a pretty reliable service.

I presume the removal of blackpool is due to not wanting to run DMU's under the wires? But...that service (at weekends) is full of Yorkshire folk heading to Blackpool. Can't see that being popular...

Blackpool and York were cut because of the DMU shortage and May timetable rewrite. The franchise agreement included the full service from Blackpool to York, but whilst services to York have now resumed Northern aren't going to be overrun with DMUs anytime soon so the possibility of permanently axing the Blackpool link will be attractive.

 

[Flying Claret]

Blackpool and York were cut because of the DMU shortage and May timetable rewrite. The franchise agreement included the full service from Blackpool to York, but whilst services to York have now resumed Northern aren't going to be overrun with DMUs anytime soon so the possibility of permanently axing the Blackpool link will be attractive.

Thanks. It would be a shame for East lancs (and beyond) to go from 2tph to Blackpool stations to none.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Northern Connect:

• Blackpool North-Glasgow Central
• Nottingham-York via Sheffield and Derby
• Hull-Nottingham via Doncaster and Derby

TPE:

• Glasgow-Nottingham via Lancaster
• Glasgow-Leeds via Manchester Victoria
• Hull-Manchester Airport (extension of existing service, possibly via Victoria?)

 

[Iskra]

Northern Connect:

• Blackpool North-Glasgow Central
• Nottingham-York via Sheffield and Derby
• Hull-Nottingham via Doncaster and Derby

TPE:

• Glasgow-Nottingham via Lancaster
• Glasgow-Leeds via Manchester Victoria
• Hull-Manchester Airport (extension of existing service, possibly via Victoria?)

1) Can be done with one change, onto a much faster train.
2) Why elongate it via Derby, which then just replicates the existing XC service?
3) Again why significantly elongate it via Derby. Everyone would just change at Sheffield instead?
4) Can be achieved with one same platform change at Manchester Picc. Which services are you replacing to provide this through train?
5) Just, why? Manchester & Leeds have plenty of trains between them. Manchester has trains to Glasgow. If you are linking Leeds to Glasgow with Northern, via Skipton is the only sensible way to do it.
6) Okay I can see some merit in that, when there are spare units to do it.

 

[LOL The Irony]

EMT and LNER and TPE merged,

Super Franchises just don't work - period. Look at GTR and Northern for examples.

 

[Japan0913]

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[LOL The Irony]

Future, EMT and LNER will be deprived of much of the revenue to HS2.

London-Sheffield / Derby / Nottingham・・・On revenue of HS2
Everything from London-Leeds/York to Scotland・・・On revenue of HS2

So
EMT until Leicester・・・On revenue of EMT
LNER until Peterborough / Hull, only ・・・On revenue of LNER
So
The EMT and LNER, revenue is likely to be small franchise.

So
EMT and LNER and TPE merged,
such as airports intercellular communication, will be to develop a route different from the HS2.
Route via the Derby and Sheffield from TPE area is promising.

・・・Of course, in my opinion.

There's a reason why NSE and some parts of InterCity were the only profitable BR sectors.

 

[Japan0913]

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[Aictos]

Network SouthEast
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_SouthEast
It is very wide.
Great Northern looks likely to be absorbed by the LNER.

But you forgot that that Network SouthEast was split into sub areas much like the TOCs operating in the area today so regardless of the fact that the brand meant you could use a NSE service from Southampton to London Waterloo then a NSE service from London Kings Cross to Huntingdon they both came under different management teams so your point is null and void.

They were simply different management teams working under the same brand.

As to Great Northern being absorbed by LNER, we don't know that for sure as it's only one possible conclusion which we don't know the outcome just yet.

As to saying that HS2 will take a lot of revenue away from LNER and EMT and especially saying everything London - Leeds/York - Scotland will be lost to HS2 is silly as HS2 is unlikely to reach Scotland before the 2030s if not later and there are still major flows on the East Coast Mainline that HS2 will not serve for example Peterborough to York, Newcastle to Edinburgh, London to Peterborough etc...

The only extra TPE route I would have liked to have seen is the transfer of York to Blackpool but extended to Scarborough from Northern to TPE as it's a classic TPE route but it comes under the Northern Connect brand so it's a upgrade anyway.

 

[Flying Claret]

But you forgot that that Network SouthEast was split into sub areas much like the TOCs operating in the area today so regardless of the fact that the brand meant you could use a NSE service from Southampton to London Waterloo then a NSE service from London Kings Cross to Huntingdon they both came under different management teams so your point is null and void.

They were simply different management teams working under the same brand.

As to Great Northern being absorbed by LNER, we don't know that for sure as it's only one possible conclusion which we don't know the outcome just yet.

As to saying that HS2 will take a lot of revenue away from LNER and EMT and especially saying everything London - Leeds/York - Scotland will be lost to HS2 is silly as HS2 is unlikely to reach Scotland before the 2030s if not later and there are still major flows on the East Coast Mainline that HS2 will not serve for example Peterborough to York, Newcastle to Edinburgh, London to Peterborough etc...

The only extra TPE route I would have liked to have seen is the transfer of York to Blackpool but extended to Scarborough from Northern to TPE as it's a classic TPE route but it comes under the Northern Connect brand so it's a upgrade anyway.

Once York-Blackpool becomes 'northern connect' what will be the noticeable upgrade? Looks like same frequency and rolling stock.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Once York-Blackpool becomes 'northern connect' what will be the noticeable upgrade? Looks like same frequency and rolling stock.

The service will be used by the new class 195’s so it’s not the same stock.

 

[Aictos]

The service will be used by the new class 195’s so it’s not the same stock.

And as the route in question hold some very fond memories for me I am very much looking forward to the new era that is coming with the Class 195s.

 

[Flying Claret]

The service will be used by the new class 195’s so it’s not the same stock.

Excellent thanks. Will look forward to those..

 

[agbrs_Jack]

Your diagram appears to have Longport on the wrong side of Stoke-on-Trent

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Your diagram appears to have Longport on the wrong side of Stoke-on-Trent

Thank You! Didn't notice, Ill change it when I have access to the map which is on the 3rd January 2019.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

Thank You! Didn't notice, Ill change it when I have access to the map which is on the 3rd January 2019.

You could either swap Stoke and Longport around, or simply change Longport to Longton. :P

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

You could either swap Stoke and Longport around, or simply change Longport to Longton. :P

I’ll do the former

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Changes:

• Edinburgh is redesigned and looks better
• Extension of Manchester Piccadilly to Hull to Manchester Airport
• switched Longport and Stoke around

Anymore changes I have missed or anything that should be included?

 

[notlob.divad]

Image

Changes:

• Edinburgh is redesigned and looks better
• Extension of Manchester Piccadilly to Hull to Manchester Airport
• switched Longport and Stoke around

Anymore changes I have missed or anything that should be included?

You have Lea Green where Huyton is, and are missing St. Helens Central, where the Liverpool-Glasgow is supposed to stop. I think TPE also stop at Birchwood between Warrington Central and Manchester.

Another potential that has been talked about, but would require the Hope Valley Works and Castlefield Corridor enhancments (ie 15 and 16) is Hull to Liverpool, via Doncaster, Sheffield, Manchester ...