Could we see additional services once improvements are made in the Huddersfield area?

[Spartacus]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...bury-public-consultation.191949/#post-4199154

Network Rail has released drawings showing the fine detail of its £1bn upgrade plan for the line between Huddersfield, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe.

Public consultation has begun for ambitious plans to increase the capacity and speed of the route in Kirklees.

Rail chiefs plan to double the tracks from two to four to allow express services to overtake the stopping services between Manchester and Leeds.

It has been dubbed the most crucial part of the £2.9bn trans-Pennine electrification project.

Six maps have now been published showing the station moves, line upgrades and more than two dozen bridge alterations and other infrastructure plans.

The maps reveal work will be required on a bridge over the line on one of Huddersfield's busiest roads - the A62 Leeds Road near the Audi dealership at Bradley.

Huddersfield Examiner’s covered it in their usual fashion, but they do at least have the maps. https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news...allery/maps-reveal-finer-details-1bn-16896794

I’m actually rather surprised by the amount of work planned east of Ravensthorpe, I’d always thought it would follow the current alignment until west of the canal, but it’s shown on a new alignment with a new bridge, presumably to maintain speed instead of having to slow down. My personal preference would be for a dive under at Ravensthorpe, a flyover would be quite imposing and visible for miles around on the edge of greenbelt.

There should inherently be increased capacity for local services with this design, especially if you wanted to run a regular service from Wakefield towards Brighouse and Bradford or Hebden Bridge and beyond which I’d have thought would be a good idea.

I’d be surprised if the new Ravensthorpe station didn’t come with a large car park, a large area currently with a business on should be vacant after the works, indeed I’d expect it to relocate before it starts. Mirfield should gain a larger car park due to the wood yard being vacated, and possibly the PW yard too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not convinced there's much demand for a regular service running along the original L&Y (Brighouse to Wakefield Kirkgate). Arriva Yorkshire have made massive cuts to that corridor in recent years despite buses being able to serve Dewsbury, so I doubt it would do well. Concentrate on improved frequency on the established routes first.

 

[Roast Veg]

At present the Leeds to Southport services run via Dewsbury whereas the Leeds to Huddersfield service runs via Bradford with a reversal - might these two be switched in order to run an electrified stopper to Huddersfield and give the Southport service better connectivity? The Southport service already runs via Todmorden.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Apologies for the off-topic, but I'd be hugely surprised if additional capacity towards Healey Mills AND reinstating the Horbury curve could be delivered for less capital outlay than an additional loop at the North end of the Penistone line. Particularly if that loop was placed between Lockwood and Berry Brow, negating the need for additional platforms and the associated step-free access.

Travel South Yorkshire have aspirations for a second Huddersfield to Sheffield service, so if the two PTEs can collaborate on this it would help.

 

[Spartacus]

I'm not convinced there's much demand for a regular service running along the original L&Y (Brighouse to Wakefield Kirkgate). Arriva Yorkshire have made massive cuts to that corridor in recent years despite buses being able to serve Dewsbury, so I doubt it would do well. Concentrate on improved frequency on the established routes first.

Yeah, I lived on the route for some years, but some of the bus timings were horrendous, if you lived anywhere near a station it was quicker to get an indirect train than the direct bus. Most I suspect just drive, contributing to the congestion the bus largely got stuck in too.

 

[Spartacus]

At present the Leeds to Southport services run via Dewsbury whereas the Leeds to Huddersfield service runs via Bradford with a reversal - might these two be switched in order to run an electrified stopper to Huddersfield and give the Southport service better connectivity? The Southport service already runs via Todmorden.

The Dewsbury - Sowerby Bridge bit it quite well patronised now, I think anything needs to be additional rather than a replacement.

 

[158756]

At present the Leeds to Southport services run via Dewsbury whereas the Leeds to Huddersfield service runs via Bradford with a reversal - might these two be switched in order to run an electrified stopper to Huddersfield and give the Southport service better connectivity? The Southport service already runs via Todmorden.

If I understand what you mean correctly, so the existing services would be replaced by another Leeds - Dewsbury - Huddersfield stopper and a (Southport) - Todmorden - Bradford - Leeds, that would leave Brighouse with no service at all, as well as removing the link from Huddersfield to Halifax and Bradford (though at 1tph this is probably only useful for connections?)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well looking at the map Deighton definitely moves to the west, either that or the platforms get shortened a lot to allow room for the dive under of the slow lines to Wakefield.

It sounds like you're confusing Deighton with Ravensthorpe, as there's no need for a dive-under near Deighton (the Bradley curve towards Brighouse will only connect to the slow lines). Ravensthorpe will move to the West to allow for the grade separation, Deighton if it moves much at all will move around 200m to the East.

 

[Bantamzen]

It sounds like you're confusing Deighton with Ravensthorpe, as there's no need for a dive-under near Deighton (the Bradley curve towards Brighouse will only connect to the slow lines). Ravensthorpe will move to the West to allow for the grade separation, Deighton if it moves much at all will move around 200m to the East.

Oops, you're right!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Oops, you're right!

Easily done! I do wonder if the Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford service will start to call at Deighton once the 4-tracking is complete, as it'll not be getting in the way of TPE services. WYPTE will have to redraw their map though!

 

[SquireBev]

Easily done! I do wonder if the Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford service will start to call at Deighton once the 4-tracking is complete, as it'll not be getting in the way of TPE services. WYPTE will have to redraw their map though!

I still haven't forgiven them for removing the line colours.

It could do with some redrawing around the Brighouse area anyway, as the current design suggests that services from the Mirfield direction terminate there.

 

[AndyHudds]

Easily done! I do wonder if the Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford service will start to call at Deighton once the 4-tracking is complete, as it'll not be getting in the way of TPE services. WYPTE will have to redraw their map though!

There's no real reason for it not to in all honesty, especially if and when Elland station is built.

 

[Spartacus]

There's no real reason for it not to in all honesty, especially if and when Elland station is built.

If there's an extra service through there it should help the business case for Elland, and possibly for a station between Ravensthorpe and Kirkgate, probably at Horbury Jn. One train per hour on that bit's always going to ruin a business case for a new station. Anyway, that's all quite speculative.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If there's an extra service through there it should help the business case for Elland, and possibly for a station between Ravensthorpe and Kirkgate, probably at Horbury Jn. One train per hour on that bit's always going to ruin a business case for a new station. Anyway, that's all quite speculative.

Low Moor reopened with only an hourly service for most of the day, and the usage figures have been disappointing as a result. An extra station between Ravensthorpe and Kirkgate could be a good idea, but Horbury Junction is distant from any major roads to access said station, and surrounded by fields and wetlands and the M1. Horbury Bridge (at the Eastern end of Healey Mills, as the up and down lines re-unite) would be a better location, on the main Huddersfield to Wakefield road and easily accessible from Ossett.

 

[Spartacus]

Low Moor reopened with only an hourly service for most of the day, and the usage figures have been disappointing as a result. An extra station between Ravensthorpe and Kirkgate could be a good idea, but Horbury Junction is distant from any major roads to access said station, and surrounded by fields and wetlands and the M1. Horbury Bridge (at the Eastern end of Healey Mills, as the up and down lines re-unite) would be a better location, on the main Huddersfield to Wakefield road and easily accessible from Ossett.

Yep, getting my Horbury's mixed up, meant Bridge all along.

 

[158756]

Yep, getting my Horbury's mixed up, meant Bridge all along.

The killer for a business case for a station there would be the lack of a direct service to Leeds - look at Featherstone and Streethouse nearby for the sort of usage figures you get without that.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yep, getting my Horbury's mixed up, meant Bridge all along.

Of course one plus side of a Horbury junction station would be the possibility of serving Barnsley line services too. A large car park off the A636 and signposted from the M1 at junction 39 would make sense in a way... but at that location there's very little surrounding residential population, and you'd either need 4 platforms, or to radically remodel the junction to ensure all stopping services used the same pair of lines.

 

[AndyHudds]

The killer for a business case for a station there would be the lack of a direct service to Leeds - look at Featherstone and Streethouse nearby for the sort of usage figures you get without that.

The thing is and I know this is straying off topic a little, they could run a service to Wakefield from Manchester with via Calder Valley or Huddersfield buy building a bay platform at Westgate. In fact it would be more use than the wretched Castleford service we're left with now

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The killer for a business case for a station there would be the lack of a direct service to Leeds - look at Featherstone and Streethouse nearby for the sort of usage figures you get without that.

It'll be interesting to see the figures for those stations since it gained a direct service to Leeds (via Wakefield Westgate). Optimised connections into Leeds services at Kirkgate and/or Castleford would help minimise the downsides of not having a direct service.

EDIT: I've created a thread for further discussion of new stations between Ravensthorpe and Wakefield, here.

 

[Andyh82]

Apologies for the off-topic, but I'd be hugely surprised if additional capacity towards Healey Mills AND reinstating the Horbury curve could be delivered for less capital outlay than an additional loop at the North end of the Penistone line. Particularly if that loop was placed between Lockwood and Berry Brow, negating the need for additional platforms and the associated step-free access.

Travel South Yorkshire have aspirations for a second Huddersfield to Sheffield service, so if the two PTEs can collaborate on this it would help.

Whilst talking about the Penistone Line, it’s a shame they can’t merge the service with the Leeds to Huddersfield stopper, to create a through Leeds service.

These stations along with Slaithwaite and Marsden are the only West Yorks stations wth no Leeds service I believe. (Excluding Pontefract Baghill)

 

[LittleAH]

I think it's a mistake not making car parking provision at either Deighton, Mirfield and Ravensthorpe. Mirfield is reduced to heavy parking along the roadside even though it does have a small car park whereas Deighton and Ravensthorpe has nothing at all, Deighton isn't even served by buses aside from a Sunday!!!

It's also disappointing if there is no increase in frequency of stopping services. The Brighouse/Halifax/Bradford should be at least twice and hour and the Leeds stopper from Huddersfield I don't think it's unreasonable to have 3 an hour at 20 minute intervals.

There's really no need for a stopper every 20 minutes. Got on the stopper to Dewsbury last week from Hudds - no more than two dozen on board. At peak times there's reason for a second stopper, but given that there is a Northern stopper between Leeds and Mirfield too and only planned 4 tracking between Hudds and Ravensthorpe - it would be simply unfeasible.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Whilst talking about the Penistone Line, it’s a shame they can’t merge the service with the Leeds to Huddersfield stopper, to create a through Leeds service.

These stations along with Slaithwaite and Marsden are the only West Yorks stations wth no Leeds service I believe. (Excluding Pontefract Baghill)

There used to be an evening peak service from Leeds in the regular Huddersfield stopper path, which ran through to Sheffield (1822 from HUD), but an equivalent service in the opposite direction would have been extremely difficult to path across Huddersfield at the time, even more difficult now... and post-upgrade, well good luck with that!

Not everywhere can have a direct train to Leeds, and acting as if a Leeds train would be the magic cure-all is delusional. Where a direct train is impractical (such as from the Penistone line) reliable connections are the key. A second train per hour would be more valuable than a direct Leeds service.

Also, Marsden and Slaithwaite do have a direct Leeds service, albeit at 0610!

 

[AndyHudds]

Whilst talking about the Penistone Line, it’s a shame they can’t merge the service with the Leeds to Huddersfield stopper, to create a through Leeds service.

These stations along with Slaithwaite and Marsden are the only West Yorks stations wth no Leeds service I believe. (Excluding Pontefract Baghill)

The 16.40 and the 17.39 both call at Slaithwaite on a tea time from Leeds.

 

[Class 170101]

The killer for a business case for a station there would be the lack of a direct service to Leeds - look at Featherstone and Streethouse nearby for the sort of usage figures you get without that.

I'm confused. Featherstone and Streethouse have trains to / from Leeds.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm confused. Featherstone and Streethouse have trains to / from Leeds.

But only gained that in the last year or so. I'd expect their numbers to make a significant jump once the impact of that improvement filters through (though with the caveat of being affected by the strikes, of course).

 

[mm333]

These stations along with Slaithwaite and Marsden are the only West Yorks stations wth no Leeds service I believe. (Excluding Pontefract Baghill)

And Baildon. Which I’d be surprised if it ever got a regular train to Leeds.

 

[tpjm]

These stations along with Slaithwaite and Marsden are the only West Yorks stations wth no Leeds service I believe. (Excluding Pontefract Baghill)

TPE Dec TT has calls for Slaithwaite, Marsden, Greenfield, Mossley and Stalybridge on the hourly Hull - Manchester Piccadilly trains in both directions for three hours in the morning and evening peak so this makes it somewhat better than the current.

 

[wellhouse]

These stations along with Slaithwaite and Marsden are the only West Yorks stations wth no Leeds service

From the December 2019 timetable change, Marsden and Slaithwaite gain direct connections to Leeds; morning and evening peak Hull services are planned to stop at all stations between Huddersfield and Stalybridge, replacing the current Northern peak services.

Depending on future proposals for Huddersfield-Standedge, it might be possible for one or more of the Leeds/Halifax/Castleford stoppers to terminate at Marsden, freeing some platform capacity at Huddersfield. There used to be one Saturday evening Leeds service that did this, and for many years all Sunday services did so, with no stoppers beyond Marsden towards Manchester.

Many moons ago there was a direct Wakefield-Manchester service.

 

[AndyHudds]

There's really no need for a stopper every 20 minutes. Got on the stopper to Dewsbury last week from Hudds - no more than two dozen on board. At peak times there's reason for a second stopper, but given that there is a Northern stopper between Leeds and Mirfield too and only planned 4 tracking between Hudds and Ravensthorpe - it would be simply unfeasible.

Yeah there is no demand because the service level doesn't give people a reason to use it, one train an hour is, quite frankly, for a line that offers a route in to Leeds absolutely garbage. No one will use it because it just doesn't offer a viable option from the intermediate stations. It would be very much a case of 'build it and they will come' situation, put in a decent service and passenger numbers would grow.

 

[Bantamzen]

And Baildon. Which I’d be surprised if it ever got a regular train to Leeds.

Actually it had one last year, for a whole week when there was a landslips south of Guiseley!