Nottingham to Leeds - run by EMR instead of Northern?

[quantinghome]

Rather than being run as a discrete service by Northern, wouldn't it be better to run the hourly Nottingham to Leeds service as an extension of the St. Pancras - Nottingham service?

Advantages would be:

- New regular direct links from West Yorkshire to South Midlands.
- 'Slow but cheap' option from Leeds to London.
- More efficient use of rolling stock by removing current layover times for two services at Nottingham.
- Longer trains from Sheffield-Leeds improving capacity.
- Northern can redeploy stock.

 

[JonathanH]

Rather than being run as a discrete service by Northern, wouldn't it be better to run the hourly Nottingham to Leeds service as an extension of the St. Pancras - Nottingham service?

No, the Nottingham to Leeds is the 'slow on the section between Nottingham and Sheffield, giving Ilkeston, Langley Mill and Dronfield an hourly service and at best a regional service north of Sheffield.

The demand from Nottingham to Leeds would not fill one of EMRs units used for London services so it would be poor stock utilisation of units designed to work 125mph services. You could equally suggest that EMR run their Nottingham services on to Lincoln but again this wouldn't match demand to expensive rolling stock.

There is nothing to suggest that it would offer a 'cheap' option from Leeds to London - EMR tickets can be more expensive than LNER ones for comparable distances.

Northern have 195s on order for this service. Granted they could use them somewhere else but EMR haven't ordered stock for it so they would be short for their main routes.

There is a suggestion that Northern intend to extend this service to Bradford Interchange via a reversal at Leeds.

 

[option]

Would the existing EMR Regional service be increased to pick up the local stops between Nottingham & Chesterfield or Sheffield?
Would you run it as an intercity train, with the same stops as the current service after Chesterfield, or less?

Could you run it via Huddersfield?

 

[JonathanH]

Could you run it via Huddersfield?

Via Huddersfield?

Tying up intercity stock trundling between Nottingham and Leeds is bad enough - how are you proposing it gets to Huddersfield?

 

[elliotjelliot]

Via Huddersfield?

Tying up intercity stock trundling between Nottingham and Leeds is bad enough - how are you proposing it gets to Huddersfield?

Whilst I am not throwing my support behind the idea, it is possible to do Nottingham-Huddersfield if trains were routed up the Penistone Line. However, this line is largely single-track and is littered with temporary speed restrictions and would probably need a bit of work to support an intercity style train.

 

[30907]

Whilst I am not throwing my support behind the idea, it is possible to do Nottingham-Huddersfield if trains were routed up the Penistone Line. However, this line is largely single-track and is littered with temporary speed restrictions and would probably need a bit of work to support an intercity style train.

Sheffield-Huddersfield would be significantly quicker via Wakefield Kirkgate - that's what was eventually done with the Whaley Bridge dam incident.

 

[JonathanH]

Sheffield-Huddersfield would be significantly quicker via Wakefield Kirkgate - that's what was eventually done with the Whaley Bridge dam incident.

0325 from Sheffield reaches Huddersfield non stop via Crofton in 45-50 minutes, rather than 80 minutes for the Penistone stopper.

There may be a case for a service over that route if there was capacity for it but that doesn't mean that it needs to be served by long-distance rather than regional trains - not sure the demand between Huddersfield and Sheffield would justify a non-stop service - crossing at Hare Park would probably not be very convenient and there probably isn't capacity at Huddersfield to terminate it either. Once you add stops, it won't be much more competitive than the Penistone route.

Are faster links between Sheffield and Huddersfield on anyone's agenda?

 

[elliotjelliot]

0325 from Sheffield reaches Huddersfield non stop via Crofton in 45-50 minutes, rather than 80 minutes for the Penistone stopper.

There may be a case for a service over that route if there was capacity for it but that doesn't mean that it needs to be served by long-distance rather than regional trains - not sure the demand between Huddersfield and Sheffield would justify a non-stop service - crossing at Hare Park would probably not be very convenient and there probably isn't capacity at Huddersfield to terminate it either. Once you add stops, it won't be much more competitive than the Penistone route.

Are faster links between Sheffield and Huddersfield on anyone's agenda?

Well I think from the perspective of someone who has lived in Huddersfield a faster Sheffield service would be desired. As you say, it currently takes 80/90 minutes, which is a long time given both areas are only 19/20 miles ish apart.

 

[option]

The OPs speculative suggestion was extending the current EMR Nottingham terminator to Leeds, which means going to Sheffield.
As there is already the XC service between Sheffield-Wakefield-Leeds, & LNR service Wakefield-Leeds, not going via Wakefield would give you a different service.

 

[AndyHudds]

I would be in favour of a faster journey between Huddersfield and Sheffield, the Penistone line is painfully slow and the connection at Wakefield has gone due to the timetable change and it running on to Castleford with the loss of the Westgate stop. It's not just getting to Sheffield quicker it's quicker journeys on to Nottingham, Leicester and Derby which at the minute take an age from Huddersfield.

 

[Iskra]

Plans are afoot to improve journey times on the Penistone line and improve the current service. Running an additional IC service on this line would be impossible, slow and a total waste. You would be faster going via Kirkgate but that is unnecessary duplication and there is no platform capacity at Huddersfield anyway.

I would support EMR services continuing to Leeds to relieve the horrendously overcrowded XC trains and provide more regular direct journey opportunities down the MML.

 

[JonathanH]

I would support EMR services continuing to Leeds to relieve the horrendously overcrowded XC trains and provide more regular direct journey opportunities down the MML.

Nothing particularly inappropriate about extending Sheffield EMR trains to Leeds if there was a path and platform capacity at Leeds. No point in extending Nottingham EMR trains to Leeds - the existing arrangements are a reasonable approach.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Northern are hopefully extending their Nottingham - Leeds service to Bradford Interchange at some stage as part of Northern Connect. This will give a much needed connection between the major cities of Bradford and Sheffield.