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York's Park & Ride scheme

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underbank

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no problem with that! York has great park and ride facilities.

All the out of town retail parks have displaced a lot of the city centre shopping traffic. I spent a few days there over New Year - the retail parks, out of town superstores and designer outlet car parks were all heaving. So rather than the park n ride "working", the reality is that thousands of drivers were shunning the city centre and going to the out of town shopping around the outer ring road instead. We went on the buses a few times and they were pretty quiet. The outer ring road to the North of the City was congested and queuing as normal! Also, the university is out of the city centre so there's no Uni traffic in the city centre either.

I applaud what York have done, but I don't think the PNR is the success it's held out to be because drivers have plenty of options to avoid city centre driving by shopping/working around the outer ring road.
 

DarloRich

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All the out of town retail parks have displaced a lot of the city centre shopping traffic. I spent a few days there over New Year - the retail parks, out of town superstores and designer outlet car parks were all heaving. So rather than the park n ride "working", the reality is that thousands of drivers were shunning the city centre and going to the out of town shopping around the outer ring road instead. We went on the buses a few times and they were pretty quiet. The outer ring road to the North of the City was congested and queuing as normal! Also, the university is out of the city centre so there's no Uni traffic in the city centre either.

I applaud what York have done, but I don't think the PNR is the success it's held out to be because drivers have plenty of options to avoid city centre driving by shopping/working around the outer ring road.

I disagree. I lived in York. The P&R is well used but mainly by visitors to York or longer distance workers. It is certainly cheaper than parking in the centre! The P&R is one of the best used in the country with something like 6 million journeys PA. People driving to York for a day out are using the P&R rather than drive into the town. Obviously not everyone but lots of people do. Locals tend to use the local bus services, cycle or walk into town. At least I did and I am quite lazy!

The A1237 northern ring road ( especially the A19 > A59 > A64 section) is always congested because it is a choke point and a single carriage way connector between 3 major roads into the city. I has never been wide enough since it was built but it is much better than the alternative of driving through the city centre! The P&R wont do much to limit traffic from the A 19 to the A64 and the A1! It does stop the centre being complete jammed up and vastly unpleasant traffic wise.

I am sure someone like @yorkie can provide much more informed comment.
 

DarloRich

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I think the telling part of that is your reference to the Uni. Public transport, cycling/pedestrian options are always going to be better around a Uni simply because most of the students won't have cars and live relatively close to it (so don't need a car anyway).

Agreed - i got the bus or metro to Uni. Most often the bus because it was cheaper. My house was on a bus route and the cost was minimal even for a student. The Number 1 bus route always seemed to have an eclectic mix of former T&WPTE ancient double deckers!
 

underbank

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I disagree. I lived in York. The P&R is well used but mainly by visitors to York or longer distance workers. It is certainly cheaper than parking in the centre!

Yes, I know what you mean, but my point was all the people who don't go into York anyway to shop, because why would you when you have the same and better shops in all the out of town shopping areas? Unless you work in the city centre, if you're local, you wouldn't be going in to sight-see and your shopping needs can be satisfied by driving around the outer ring road. The "High Street" as such is pretty poor for shopping - more just for city centre workers and tourists between sights. Personally, having been a regular visitor to York for 40 years (leisure, family and work visits), I think the outer ring road and the out of town shopping areas has had a greater impact on reducing car use in the city centre than the PNR.
 

DarloRich

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think the outer ring road and the out of town shopping areas has had a greater impact on reducing car use in the city centre than the PNR.

I will agree that if you are coming to shop you might as well go to the designer outlet. If you are coming for a day out to look at the minster, the NRM and the Yorvik centre many people now use the park and ride. It is really easy, the buses ( even as a self declared bus hater) are pleasant, clean, reliable, well fitted, regular and quick.

I dont shop so it is wasted on me!
 

Andyh82

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Worth bearing in mind that they are only planning on banning cars within the city walls, which is quite a small area, and I wonder what cars are doing within the walls in the first place. Even most city centre car parks are accessed from outside the walls.

It basically amounts to a good way to get rid of traffic over Lendal Bridge again, as there is minimal other traffic problems within the walls, without actually saying as much.
 

LMS 4F

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Worth bearing in mind that they are only planning on banning cars within the city walls, which is quite a small area, and I wonder what cars are doing within the walls in the first place. Even most city centre car parks are accessed from outside the walls.

It basically amounts to a good way to get rid of traffic over Lendal Bridge again, as there is minimal other traffic problems within the walls, without actually saying as much.
It is to be hoped that this time York Council gets its act together. The Lendal Bridge fiasco ended up costing a small fortune once it was found to be not lawful. I was told it was because certain councillors wouldn't wait before implementation.
 

158756

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Worth bearing in mind that they are only planning on banning cars within the city walls, which is quite a small area, and I wonder what cars are doing within the walls in the first place. Even most city centre car parks are accessed from outside the walls.

It basically amounts to a good way to get rid of traffic over Lendal Bridge again, as there is minimal other traffic problems within the walls, without actually saying as much.

I don't think I've ever driven in York city centre - I'd arrive by train or use the Park and Ride, but doesn't this ban leave York with about nine-tenths of an inner ring road - is that a sensible idea? I agree with other posters that driving round the A1237 it looks very much like the locals have already abandoned the centre in favour of driving to out of town shops.
 

LMS 4F

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IT should be remembered that within York city walls there are several streets where people live so they will need access to their homes. Also I understand blue badge holders will be allowed some access as well as buses, taxis and delivery vehicles so how much difference it will make is problematic.
 

neilmc

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York certainly has a comprehensive Park and Ride scheme, but I do wonder whether they are perpetrating an abuse of the ENCTS bus pass scheme? These services appear to be normal town services until the last stopping point on the routes out of town, when they transform into the Park and Ride. This means that free passes can be used along the route but not to and from the Park and Ride itself, whereby a rate, albeit discounted, is charged. Presumably visitors accept this, as it is still clearly cheaper and less hassle than trying to park in York itself, and even if they know that the bus is free to York residents along the route, I doubt whether many would bother to walk out into the suburbs just to save the fare. York residents won't mind, of course, since out-of-towners are subsidising their bus rather than the other way around, but is this interpretation of the ENCTS rules valid and legal? Can a bus service be designated as Park and Ride, and thus exempt from the ENCTS scheme, only for passengers who board or alight at the facility but the same bus also considered a local service for the rest of the route? Has this ever been tested in law? Certainly other places such as Preston and Lancaster waive this and travel is free for all concessionary travellers after 09:30. Would love to hear what others think.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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York certainly has a comprehensive Park and Ride scheme, but I do wonder whether they are perpetrating an abuse of the ENCTS bus pass scheme? These services appear to be normal town services until the last stopping point on the routes out of town, when they transform into the Park and Ride. This means that free passes can be used along the route but not to and from the Park and Ride itself, whereby a rate, albeit discounted, is charged. Presumably visitors accept this, as it is still clearly cheaper and less hassle than trying to park in York itself, and even if they know that the bus is free to York residents along the route, I doubt whether many would bother to walk out into the suburbs just to save the fare. York residents won't mind, of course, since out-of-towners are subsidising their bus rather than the other way around, but is this interpretation of the ENCTS rules valid and legal? Can a bus service be designated as Park and Ride, and thus exempt from the ENCTS scheme, only for passengers who board or alight at the facility but the same bus also considered a local service for the rest of the route? Has this ever been tested in law? Certainly other places such as Preston and Lancaster waive this and travel is free for all concessionary travellers after 09:30. Would love to hear what others think.

Don't think you're quite right there. The routes tend to be limited stop so, such as Askham Bar, they leave there and pick up at the Tesco but then it's non stop into the city centre where there are a number of set down stops. A couple, like the 59 to Poppleton, set down at an intermediate point like the National Railway Museum. The variation does occur on some evening services

As for the changes to accessing the city centre, whilst shoppers have undoubtedly been attracted to Monks Cross and the Outlet, there are still plenty of people who wish/need to access the city centre for work or tourism. There will be genuine issues for those who live in the centre and have genuine need but I suspect we will have the usual list of people who absolutely HAVE to have access for <insert dubious reason here> and not merely for convenience ;)
 

brompton rail

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My understanding of the McArthur Glen Outlet (Fulford Road) is that Bus Passes are valid all the way OUT of Town, but passengers who board at the outer terminus (McArthurn Glen) to go INTO Town have to pay a supplement / premium. This makes it simpler for the driver as there is only one stop he needs to apply special fares. Incidentally the Fulford Road Park and Ride service is all stops and carries many intermediate passengers. Can’t speak of other P&R routes as I’ve never used them.
 

dazzler

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My understanding of the McArthur Glen Outlet (Fulford Road) is that Bus Passes are valid all the way OUT of Town, but passengers who board at the outer terminus (McArthurn Glen) to go INTO Town have to pay a supplement / premium. This makes it simpler for the driver as there is only one stop he needs to apply special fares. Incidentally the Fulford Road Park and Ride service is all stops and carries many intermediate passengers. Can’t speak of other P&R routes as I’ve never used them.

The 2 (Rawcliffe Bar), 8 (Grimston Bar), 9 (Monks Cross) and 59 (Poppleton) are all limited stop, as they parallel other bus routes (either First York or other operators) in part or in full. The 3 (Askham Bar) is an express service only stopping at Askham Bar Tesco (the former P&R site) on the way to the current terminus, although in the evenings it is replaced by the 3A, which calls at all stops.

The 7 is, as you say, the only P&R service which calls at all the stops on the route, providing the local service on Fulford Road in addition to the P&R service to the MacArthur Glen Shopping Centre.
 
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