Journeyman
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Don't worry too much about that, you're very unlikely to see any staff on board trains anyway.
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Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June
- Thread starter Saint66
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Don't worry too much about that, you're very unlikely to see any staff on board trains anyway.
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Have they not been working with colleagues to work to enable the store to open yesterday?
You could use that on a train as well.
I feel what you're saying, and I have to agree on the paranoia point; before the lockdown business took hold I was finding the "Meanwhile in the Fridge" meme amusing (see https://starecat.com/meanwhile-insi...ated-from-rest-of-food-products-wearing-mask/ ). although I am closer to livid than sad about how it has worked out (in an attempt to maintain what is left of my sanity). Now it is getting beyond a joke...
Bantamzen
Established Member
To be fair she does have a point, there is a risk of an accident occurring when on public transport that may result in fatalities. Also there is a smaller risk that you might catch the virus, which in itself has an even smaller chance of killing you...…
I think we all knew this was coming, and sadly the paranoia shown by this <ahem> "key worker" will just be the tip of the iceberg. This what happens when you scare the you-know-what out of the population by firstly telling people that going outside will kill people, then telling them that public transport is only safe if you don't go around daring to breath fresh air without the use of a muzzle. But most interestingly it shows the true mindset behind the altruism that some people claim to practising. Many people will say they are wearing masks so as not to risk other people's lives, when what they mean to say is they want other people to wear masks so as not to risk theirs. Altruism my ****!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, and that is why the view on them has changed so quickly.
All Eurostar trains pass through France so I guess that’s where it is coming from.
What I find particularly depressing over the past few days is the attitude of some people to those who are not wearing masks
You go onto Social Media (which I appreciate is always the thin end of the wedge with this stuff) and you see a stream of "I saw someone in their mid 30s, medium build not wearing a mask...why haven't they been arrested??????" or even worse saying that bus drivers should be getting into the enforcement business - because what bus drivers really need is more confrontations with awkward customers.
We all need to be less judgmental - you have no idea why someone else might not be wearing one.
Also very sad to see some of the other stories of "xxx didn't wear a mask...I am going to die now"...another example of people not understanding risk.
You go onto Social Media (which I appreciate is always the thin end of the wedge with this stuff) and you see a stream of "I saw someone in their mid 30s, medium build not wearing a mask...why haven't they been arrested??????" or even worse saying that bus drivers should be getting into the enforcement business - because what bus drivers really need is more confrontations with awkward customers.
We all need to be less judgmental - you have no idea why someone else might not be wearing one.
Also very sad to see some of the other stories of "xxx didn't wear a mask...I am going to die now"...another example of people not understanding risk.
Is there a list of key workers somewhere? I doubt many key workers are even using the train. Most of the Hospitals in Wales are not near a station, nor is the timetable particularly useful for a 7 am shift change. In Cardiff, most of the bin lorries are based in Lamby Way. Nowhere near a station or even a bus stop. To be honest, shop workers are the most likely to go by public transport. City centre parking costs rather more than a bus or train ticket into Central Cardiff.
Bantamzen
Established Member
As things now stand there are no "key workers" any more. With the exception of the leisure & hospitality sectors, most business will be in the process of re-opening in the coming weeks or will have already done so this week. It time to stop referring to anyone as "key".
Unless they work in a key cutters or locksmiths perhaps.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Touché...
I can't resist a pun !
The actual list of "key workers" was the list of people that were allowed to send their children to school at the height of the pandemic. As we are gradually reopening the economy the term should now disappear.
CaptainHaddock
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Or if they work in a harbour they couild be classed as "Quay workers".
I think they already are !
Sturgeon still almost daily says thank you to the “key workers” who are allowing us to get through the crisis. Although to be fair anything non essential she’s keeping shut for another month at least so that’s possibly why.
CaptainHaddock
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If only her mouth were classed as "non-essential"!
Agreed. Something else just occurred to me. Does Mrs paranoid expect everyone to wear a facemask in her jewellery shop? It's quite possible customers will be in the shop longer than they would be on a tram.
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Butts
Veteran Member
Quite right to !!!
Us Key Workers don't want Furlough Shirkers clogging up the Rail Network again.
A carriage to yourself has become de rigueur
If we carry on keeping people away from catching trains, it's only a matter of time before HM Treasury - never that keen on railways - eyes up some big savings. As Christian Wolmar has suggested, high rail support costs and low passengers numbers are music to their ears as cutting rail saves a lot of money but probably not too many votes. The negative impact on passenger volume may abate once government and the industry come out of panic mode, stop branding public transport as plague carriers (and the rail unions are implicated in this too) and start welcoming passengers back. However, many have got out of the habit of catching trains and experience suggests it can take 18 months to get back to full usage, assuming the economy is in full flow, especially if working from home becomes the "new normal" for many former commuters. Beeching II or Serpell II anyone? I thought not.
Bantamzen
Established Member
There was a list, although it wasn't an absolute list of roles, more the kind of businesses that would stay open.
The phrase "key workers" started out as a term for the people who were not being furloughed, but has now turned into another political stick. And Nanny Sturgeon seems like to wave her stick.....
With something like jewellery that is very possible, not to mention that this is the kind of product you would expect to touch and try on. But the government haven't said you will instantly die or kill thousands by breathing in shops, so she'll be fine....
Mintona
Established Member
More from my actual scientist friend..
“There have been decades of research on the wearing of normal face masks and the evidence is not strong at all. Most of the studies show a positive, but not statistically significant response. Some claim a significant response of about 3-5%, hence the government's line of a "weak but positive effect". Even with those that claim a positive effect, its in symptomatic people (i.e. people giving off large droplets). There is a reason governments, WHO etc were not advising the wearing of masks. But now we need to exit lockdown, suddenly its a must”
I know it’s a bit ‘my friend who knows better than your friend’ but as someone actually working researching this virus (and who has had it, but caught from his wife rather than at work) it takes some beating as a source for me.
“There have been decades of research on the wearing of normal face masks and the evidence is not strong at all. Most of the studies show a positive, but not statistically significant response. Some claim a significant response of about 3-5%, hence the government's line of a "weak but positive effect". Even with those that claim a positive effect, its in symptomatic people (i.e. people giving off large droplets). There is a reason governments, WHO etc were not advising the wearing of masks. But now we need to exit lockdown, suddenly its a must”
I know it’s a bit ‘my friend who knows better than your friend’ but as someone actually working researching this virus (and who has had it, but caught from his wife rather than at work) it takes some beating as a source for me.
I think there may be merit in that, but my view is that if the use of masks means we can ditch social distancing on trains (masks are for when social distancing isn't possible), then it's the lesser of the two evils!
However I am wondering if masks may make a difference with the 'super spreaders' (around 20% of infected people are likely responsible for around 80% of infections); I will make a separate thread about that, to avoid this thread going off topic. (edit: thread created here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...be-responsible-for-around-80-of-cases.205538/ )
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That has to be a worry.
The industry's recent call to drop the "essential travel only" message is a step in the right direction, but it will take some good campaigning and promotional offers to bring the normals back to rail.
I agree with this point of view.
Whilst it's definitely encouraging that there are viroligists that don't consider public transport as being a huge transmission risk, it's the "do not use public transport" message resulting from social distancing on trains that is doing the real damage. In this respect, the wearing of face coverings is definitely the lesser of two evils.
Has this been dropped? This is from various TOC websites this morning:
EMR:
Northern:
Scotrail
EMR even has a checklist that must be filled out before you book a ticket, and one of the questions you must answer is whether you’re a key worker (image attached).
If the message has been dropped, I would’ve thought TOC’s would want people back onboard to make money again, and this is clearly not yet happening.
Attachments
I'm not sure if it's lawful for them to insist that people with medical conditions or anxiety wear a mask while in the UK; I'd have thought not, but once you cross the border, I'd assume French law would apply (perhaps someone can confirm).
If their T&Cs are at odds with the law, then it could make an interesting legal case on the basis of discrimination but I have no idea what the prospect of success might be.
Not on topic for this thread, what @yorksrob says is true of Northern Rail; let's discuss in a more suitable thread as it's not directly related to face masks (other than indirectly in that the fact that the wearing of masks is likely to result in the abolishment of social distancing on trains, which in turn will presumably result in the message from TOCs changing)
Apologies for being off topic - it was a call to drop it - presumably they feel that they require consent from the Geovernment before they actually do drop it.
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