Ideas to reopen the leisure & tourism sectors if social distancing is to continue

[Scrotnig]

I don't include in that hotels (without the restaurant; all food could be room service) or Airbnb. They are no worse than any block of flats, as that's basically what they are.

I don't see what the dragging of heels over campsites is, either; if the toilet block is a problem, provide a polybog per pitch. Plenty going spare while big events are not on.

Holidays require bars, pubs, restaurants, cafes to be open.

Nobody is going to go on holiday and then sit in their hotel room for two weeks.

 

[Butts]

Holidays require bars, pubs, restaurants, cafes to be open.

Nobody is going to go on holiday and then sit in their hotel room for two weeks.

Unless they are on honeymoon or it has a good selection of "alternative channels" - and a big mini bar

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which part of "without access to a computer" don't you understand ?

Not happening?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Holidays require bars, pubs, restaurants, cafes to be open.

Nobody is going to go on holiday and then sit in their hotel room for two weeks.

Depends what you like in a holiday. As soon as I'm allowed I will certainly be going for a weekend of hillwalking in one of the National Parks.

Not all types of holidays require indoor hospitality to be worthwhile. Room service breakfast and takeaways would be quite adequate for that sort of holiday, or even better self catering in an Airbnb or even a tent/caravan/camper.

 

[Scrotnig]

Depends what you like in a holiday. As soon as I'm allowed I will certainly be going for a weekend of hillwalking in one of the National Parks.

Not all types of holidays require indoor hospitality to be worthwhile. Room service breakfast and takeaways would be quite adequate for that sort of holiday, or even better self catering in an Airbnb or even a tent/caravan/camper.

So this seems to be, holidays you enjoy are allowed, but anything else can be banned indefinitely. Nice.

 

[Bantamzen]

Depends what you like in a holiday. As soon as I'm allowed I will certainly be going for a weekend of hillwalking in one of the National Parks.

Not all types of holidays require indoor hospitality to be worthwhile. Room service breakfast and takeaways would be quite adequate for that sort of holiday, or even better self catering in an Airbnb or even a tent/caravan/camper.

As soon as we are allowed my wife and I are beggaring off to Spain. You can sit in some fields in the rain in a tent, we'll be sat on the terrace of a family member's villa under the Mediterranean sun, sipping the local wine & then heading out to for tapas.

 

[birchesgreen]

Depends what you like in a holiday. As soon as I'm allowed I will certainly be going for a weekend of hillwalking in one of the National Parks.

Not all types of holidays require indoor hospitality to be worthwhile. Room service breakfast and takeaways would be quite adequate for that sort of holiday, or even better self catering in an Airbnb or even a tent/caravan/camper.

Yes that's what you like/need in a holiday (and to be honest i'm not far off the same) but the vast majority want something else.

 

[thejuggler]

A local pub is looking at a booking system to keep numbers in check. You buy a £30 voucher which is valid for a few hours for food and drink. After your slot you get thrown out for the next group of ticketholders.

 

[route101]

When the chance arises , i will get away somewhere , all i need is a train, hotel and takeaway food.

 

[sheff1]

A local pub is looking at a booking system to keep numbers in check. You buy a £30 voucher which is valid for a few hours for food and drink. After your slot you get thrown out for the next group of ticketholders.

The sort of place to avoid by the sounds of it. Seeme like a surefire way of going out of business.

 

[BJames]

The sort of place to avoid by the sounds of it. Seeme like a surefire way of going out of business.

Quite. I can't see the appeal of this and I'm sure most people would agree. Shan't be going to the pub while this is the case, especially now you can gather in private gardens in groups of up to 6 - I'll wait till the restrictions subside to something a bit more workable.

 

[birchesgreen]

A local pub is looking at a booking system to keep numbers in check. You buy a £30 voucher which is valid for a few hours for food and drink. After your slot you get thrown out for the next group of ticketholders.

Sounds like a sure fire way for aggro at some stage.

 

[yorksrob]

I would have thought that just counting people in and counting them out again would be the easier system for pubs. Like a student nightclub.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would have thought that just counting people in and counting them out again would be the easier system for pubs. Like a student nightclub.

It's not so much about plain numbers but about table allocations for household/"bubble" groups as that maximises capacity, because if they don't do that they will go out of business. Pubs will, unless they have large outside areas, need to turn away "the old single bloke in the corner who nurses his pint of the cheapest bitter for 4 hours reading the paper" because they will need that table for a family of 4 who will have food and drinks. So the "minimum spend on table reservation" makes sense.

For pubs that can mainly only do outside, they might want to consider you having to order and pay for your meal and first round of drinks at the time of booking, you could then collect it as a takeaway if it was tipping it down.

 

[yorksrob]

It's not so much about plain numbers but about table allocations for household/"bubble" groups as that maximises capacity, because if they don't do that they will go out of business. Pubs will, unless they have large outside areas, need to turn away "the old single bloke in the corner who nurses his pint of the cheapest bitter for 4 hours reading the paper" because they will need that table for a family of 4 who will have food and drinks. So the "minimum spend on table reservation" makes sense.

For pubs that can mainly only do outside, they might want to consider you having to order and pay for your meal and first round of drinks at the time of booking, you could then collect it as a takeaway if it was tipping it down.

That might be the case for restaurant pubs, but for most drinkers pubs, the "bloke in the corner" is the main market.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That might be the case for restaurant pubs, but for most drinkers pubs, the "bloke in the corner" is the main market.

I'm genuinely not sure many "drinker's pubs" will survive this other than Wetherspoons. They were on shaky economics anyway, other than the relatively small number where the landlord owns the building and doesn't need much money coming in to keep it going on the side rather than as a main income.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm genuinely not sure many "drinker's pubs" will survive this other than Wetherspoons. They were on shaky economics anyway, other than the relatively small number where the landlord owns the building and doesn't need much money coming in to keep it going on the side rather than as a main income.

It would be a tradgedy indeed if they didn't survive (and no, I have no wish to just go round and round different Weatherspoons).

On the other hand, a lot of pubs on "ropey ground" probably weren't that busy in the first place, so social distancing isn't going to be so much of an issue.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I'm genuinely not sure many "drinker's pubs" will survive this other than Wetherspoons. They were on shaky economics anyway, other than the relatively small number where the landlord owns the building and doesn't need much money coming in to keep it going on the side rather than as a main income.

Speaking as another "bloke in the corner" I can assure you that's definitely not the case. Prior to the lockdown we had seen a massive rise in the number of micropubs, whose business was predominately real and craft ales, little in the way of food and with low overheads due to their small space and often limited opening hours.

Provided the 2 metre rule is cut to 1 metre (and in a few weeks abolished altogether) I can see micropubs thriving once more. People will be desperate to socialise, enjoy good conversation and proper cask beers after all these weeks of isolation!

 

[duncanp]

Thought this cartoon in the paper today was amusing, commenting on the utter absurdity of pubs having to keep a register of customers.

If pubs have to do this, then why not all the supermarkets, IKEA, Argos etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speaking as another "bloke in the corner" I can assure you that's definitely not the case. Prior to the lockdown we had seen a massive rise in the number of micropubs, whose business was predominately real and craft ales, little in the way of food and with low overheads due to their small space and often limited opening hours.

Provided the 2 metre rule is cut to 1 metre (and in a few weeks abolished altogether) I can see micropubs thriving once more. People will be desperate to socialise, enjoy good conversation and proper cask beers after all these weeks of isolation!

I didn't think of micropubs, but I wouldn't put them in the same bracket - it's quite likely many won't survive, but setting up afresh is relatively cheap as they are small premises with low rents and low overheads, and usually staffed for the hours the owner wants to staff them themselves rather than taking on staff for the traditional 11am-11:20pm opening. Indeed, they could well be the future of the "drinker's pub". They also usually do considerable off-trade, which may have kept them going, indeed, many are bottle-shops with a couple of seats rather than pubs, really.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thought this cartoon in the paper today was amusing, commenting on the utter absurdity of pubs having to keep a register of customers.

If pubs have to do this, then why not all the supermarkets, IKEA, Argos etc.

Because maintaining 2m there (other than fleetingly) is practical.

 

[Bantamzen]

I didn't think of micropubs, but I wouldn't put them in the same bracket - it's quite likely many won't survive, but setting up afresh is relatively cheap as they are small premises with low rents and low overheads, and usually staffed for the hours the owner wants to staff them themselves rather than taking on staff for the traditional 11am-11:20pm opening. Indeed, they could well be the future of the "drinker's pub". They also usually do considerable off-trade, which may have kept them going, indeed, many are bottle-shops with a couple of seats rather than pubs, really.

I love how easily you will toss other people's businesses and jobs under the bus, "Hey if they go under so what? Its cheap enough for someone else to start up right? Maybe?". Well as a friend of mine owns & runs just such one, I can tell you that no, it really isn't.

 

[takno]

I didn't think of micropubs, but I wouldn't put them in the same bracket - it's quite likely many won't survive, but setting up afresh is relatively cheap as they are small premises with low rents and low overheads, and usually staffed for the hours the owner wants to staff them themselves rather than taking on staff for the traditional 11am-11:20pm opening. Indeed, they could well be the future of the "drinker's pub". They also usually do considerable off-trade, which may have kept them going, indeed, many are bottle-shops with a couple of seats rather than pubs, really.

They are a long way from trivial to set up, and creating an entrepreneurial culture where people feel at least vaguely supported in doing so has taken years. We are sending a clear message by throwing these people, and the people who took a chance by working for them, under the bus. Why would anybody bother for the next 20 years having seen that the government can just crush them on a whim?

 

[Bantamzen]

They are a long way from trivial to set up, and creating an entrepreneurial culture where people feel at least vaguely supported in doing so has taken years. We are sending a clear message by throwing these people, and the people who took a chance by working for them, under the bus. Why would anybody bother for the next 20 years having seen that the government can just crush them on a whim?

Indeed, its not just a case chuck a bit of cash at it & away you go. Owners have to carefully feel out the potential client base, they need to source from more independent brewers, work out just what they can expect to charge, and in some cases even start to brew their own. The micro-pub scene that has popped up around Bradford took years to cultivate, and whilst prior to the virus it had become very popular, was still a difficult environment to nurture & grow in. I will be fully supporting these as they start to reopen, and I'll be encouraging my social circle to join me (though frankly it won't take much!).

 

[underbank]

A local pub is looking at a booking system to keep numbers in check. You buy a £30 voucher which is valid for a few hours for food and drink. After your slot you get thrown out for the next group of ticketholders.

I quite liked the way the Amsterdam Heineken experience manages it. They give you three tokens on a wristband when you do in. You exchange a token for each bottle of Heineken. Once you've had your 3, you're not getting any more. UK pubs could easily do the same. Of course, you'll have some people who'll give a spare token to a friend, but I think it's a good starting point to control the amount drunk by most drinkers and to avoid drunkenness etc.

 

[underbank]

They are a long way from trivial to set up, and creating an entrepreneurial culture where people feel at least vaguely supported in doing so has taken years. We are sending a clear message by throwing these people, and the people who took a chance by working for them, under the bus. Why would anybody bother for the next 20 years having seen that the government can just crush them on a whim?

But the Govt support has been pretty impressive. They'd get between £10k and £50k business rates grant, plus being able to furlough their staff, plus self employment income support grant, plus government backed low interest loans. No other country has come close to that level of support.

 

[takno]

But the Govt support has been pretty impressive. They'd get between £10k and £50k business rates grant, plus being able to furlough their staff, plus self employment income support grant, plus government backed low interest loans. No other country has come close to that level of support.

They might have qualified for some business rates grant to cover a small proportion of their income, definitely wouldn't as a business have qualified for the self-employment income support, and quite likely couldn't get a loan (and may well not have any credible way to pay it back for a long time now.

They may have been able to furlough their staff, although the staff are unlikely to be well-paid, so the fact that it's only 80% support would hurt them a lot. The staff may also be casual and relatively short term, meaning they lack the employment history or average hours worked to get a decent furlough payment.

The government support hasn't been bad, although it's actually about average for Europe rather than being world-beating, and it's certainly not anything like 100% of costs. Plenty of business haven't made it through lockdown, and even more won't make it through a long slow loss-making reopening. You have to unfurlough your staff to open, and once the grants and loans are gone, they are gone.

Suggesting that the government package was plenty kind of implies that it is these folks' own fault for something not being able to keep their business afloat, which really makes it even worse

 

[underbank]

Suggesting that the government package was plenty kind of implies that it is these folks' own fault for something not being able to keep their business afloat, which really makes it even worse

Do it really doesn't. No govt can be expected to bankroll every individual and every business owner. Anyone expecting the Govt to pay a business all it's lost income is deluded. The business rates grant was intended to cover fixed costs of the premises (rent, power, utilities, security, insurance, etc). Furlough was meant to support employees. SEISS and loans and ultmately UC was meant to support the owner's lost profits. Without that support, millions of people would be unemployed, risk losing their homes, businesses shut for good, etc. Because of the support, "most" people and businesses will be able to come through this dark period. Inevitably, there'll be some collapsed businesses - many will have been in trouble before covid, with low profits or losses, no reserves, etc. We have a country pub/restaurant near us that's just called in the receivers - everyone is blaming covid, but when you look at their published accounts on Companies House, they've been losing money for years - the 2019 year end showed a loss of £150k - it was a dead duck anyway.

 

[Llanigraham]

I didn't think of micropubs, but I wouldn't put them in the same bracket - it's quite likely many won't survive, but setting up afresh is relatively cheap as they are small premises with low rents and low overheads, and usually staffed for the hours the owner wants to staff them themselves rather than taking on staff for the traditional 11am-11:20pm opening. Indeed, they could well be the future of the "drinker's pub". They also usually do considerable off-trade, which may have kept them going, indeed, many are bottle-shops with a couple of seats rather than pubs, really.

That suggests that you have limited experience of these types of businesses.
Moving a small brewery from one premises to another is not that simple, having helped someone to do so. Even a small brew vessel can need forklift trucks, cranes and large lorries, and if you have to hire them they aren't cheap!
And that presumes that you can find suitable premises! That isn't as simple as you presume. It needs space, adequate water supplies and has to be inspected by Environmental Health to meet quite stringent standards.
Bottle shops with a few seats! Really? Whilst some might be like that others are proper pubs, with full facilities and several that I know also do food.
It really isn't as simple as you think.

 

[ChrisC]

The micro-pub scene that has popped up around Bradford took years to cultivate, and whilst prior to the virus it had become very popular, was still a difficult environment to nurture & grow in. I will be fully supporting these as they start to reopen, and I'll be encouraging my social circle to join me (though frankly it won't take much!).

Perhaps not everyone will agree but I think it’s going to be important to support the local independently owned and run business as they try to reopen, rather than the large national and international chains. I think this will be especially important in smaller towns and rural areas.
I’d much rather support small micro-pubs and independently owned village pubs than Wetherspoons etc. I will do the same to support small locally run coffee shops instead of going back to Costa, Starbucks etc.

Throughout the lockdown I’ve used local shops in my own and neighbouring villages rather than the large supermarkets. In addition to not having to queue I’ve enjoyed far better quality food and service from local bakers, butchers, greengrocers, deli etc. I’ve also felt that shopping at the small village Co op does to support them keeping the smaller shops in villages going. I know the Co op is a large national company but it does serve lots of rural locations where the other supermarkets do not serve. It may be more more expensive but I’m going to try to continue shopping locally.

I’m going to do the same once we are able to book UK holidays. I will support the independently owned hotels rather than go back to the large chains. I’m actually thinking first of all to go self catering and stay in a privately owned cottage. I can’t see the point in being stuck in a hotel room with limited dining and bar facilities and having to find takeaways etc. Far easier to have somewhere with more space and at least a microwave. Also I think I will be using my car instead of trains and buses for the time being for leisure travel.