UK face coverings discussion

[al78]

Removing the plastic barriers stealing half the road for pedestrians and the wooden planter boxes shutting off roads for Covid-19 (wtf?) would take serious equipment.

Stealing half the road for pedestrians? Roads are public rights of way, pedestrians can use them legally, no-one "owns" the roads and there is no "stealing" going on, despite what the motoring lobby extremists like to think. Reallocation of road space maybe, which if it is for vulnerable road users is a good thing.

 

[43066]

Stealing half the road for pedestrians? Roads are public rights of way, pedestrians can use them legally, no-one "owns" the roads and there is no "stealing" going on, despite what the motoring lobby extremists like to think. Reallocation of road space maybe, which if it is for vulnerable road users is a good thing.

Or in the case of my local area, they’ve closed quiet residential roads with few pedestrians which has made a local trunk route (with lots of shops, narrow pavements) far busier.

It’s stupidity in action.

 

[talldave]

Stealing half the road for pedestrians? Roads are public rights of way, pedestrians can use them legally, no-one "owns" the roads and there is no "stealing" going on, despite what the motoring lobby extremists like to think. Reallocation of road space maybe, which if it is for vulnerable road users is a good thing.

Yes, half the (one-way) road width barricaded off, parking bays suspended to give the cars somewhere to drive, tarmac dollops here and there to smooth pedestrians' descent onto the road surface and arrows painted so that pedestrians know whether to use pavement or road surface in the new dystopian environment. Oh, but 50 yards down the road, there are no plastic barriers and everyone has to go back to sharing the more than adequate pavement again. Another 50 yards and it's down another dollop of tarmac and onto another short section of barriered off road.

It's pathetic. I suspect the only notable achievement will be an increase in twisted ankles as people negotiate the tarmac dollops! But that's OK because it's all for the greater good against the deadly killer virus.

Or in the case of my local area, they’ve closed quiet residential roads with few pedestrians which has made a local trunk route (with lots of shops, narrow pavements) far busier.

It’s stupidity in action.

I do wonder if local councils have misery maximisation committees?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

A fine example of "cones and planters" is Aberdeen:

Backlog (67785)

The problem with the pavement extensions on Union Street is that there is no room for buses to overtake. So with 67785 having a good few passengers to drop off and pick up everything else must wait. Whilst I foresee the main section of Union Street being closed for good, it would make more...

flic.kr

Getting Bushy (67084)

The next phase of Union Street pedestriaisation has seen a row of oversize pot plants installed in the last week in the middle of the street as seen behind the E200MMC on the 23. The rain would not have helped today but for peak time Union Street pedestrian numbers really dont justify the...

flic.kr

 

[DB]

Pedestrianisation of parts of town centres obviously has some significant advantages. However, it should be planned and implemented prooperly - not some half-arsed bodge which hasn't been thought through properly.

And I can see no merit in doing it as a 'safety' measure because of the big bad virus.

 

[yorkie]

Please create a new thread (if there isn't one already) to discuss anything other than the wearing of face masks which is the subject of this thread

Thanks

 

[farleigh]

Interesting weekend. Felt like normality. Food out last night followed by pub then snooker today All were busy with no masks.. Other pubs and restaurants busy.. That was a lot of people choosing not to wear one.

My best guess is that the mask fad will be dropped after schools successfully return without them.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Pedestrianisation of parts of town centres obviously has some significant advantages. However, it should be planned and implemented prooperly - not some half-arsed bodge which hasn't been thought through properly.

And I can see no merit in doing it as a 'safety' measure because of the big bad virus.

What do you think about the proposed pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Interesting weekend. Felt like normality. Food out last night followed by pub then snooker today All were busy with no masks.. Other pubs and restaurants busy.. That was a lot of people choosing not to wear one.

My best guess is that the mask fad will be dropped after schools successfully return without them.

Where was this?
I was on a London Overground train yesterday evening, between Willesden and Clapham Junction. I’d say maybe only 50% of passengers were wearing face coverings, plus some chin-wearers. Was seriously tempted to take mine off, given the alleged benefit is to those around me. If my mask is not protecting me, and most others aren’t bothering, it just feels even more pointless than ever. A few were carrying masks in pockets, and hastily put them on as the train approached Clapham Junction. I guess there is still a fear of being questioned, at obvious places like major stations.
There will for many people come a tipping point, where the reluctant compliers just feel emboldened enough to stop wearing these things.

 

[jumble]

A lot of people seem to think that a face mask over the chin is sufficient. I have made a point of calling people out for this if they don't look like the sort that would react aggressively to it.

Face masks may be uncomfortable, but they aren't the worst thing in the world. I just wish that minority of idiots would get over themselves.

I have read a lot of your posts
I do know that some people with Aspergers and the like ( I have a relative who has aspergers but am not saying that this applys to you as I do not know you) get very distressed if other people are not obeying the rules but I think you need to be aware that I do not want you telling me what to do.
My opinion on masks, which is that there is no credible evidence what ever that they are effective, is just as valid as yours and you should respect that opinion.
I do wear one most of the time because I respect the fact that some people are terrified of Covid and me not wearing one is not going to help them but if I have forgotten it then I do not appreciate members of the public poking their noses in as I might well be exempt for all they know.
If I were exempt I would not appreciate you deciding I am an idiot who needs educating.

For the sake of completeness I would not dream of assaulting anyone who questions me but you may well find someone who is not so tolerant

 

[greyman42]

There will for many people come a tipping point, where the reluctant compliers just feel emboldened enough to stop wearing these things.

I think we have already reached that point and that is why Boris has increased the fine. I think this only gets peoples backs up all the more.

 

[DB]

What do you think about the proposed pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre?

No idea what's happening in Norwich - not been there for at least four or five years!

 

[Justin Smith]

Interesting weekend. Felt like normality. Food out last night followed by pub then snooker today All were busy with no masks.. Other pubs and restaurants busy.. That was a lot of people choosing not to wear one.

My best guess is that the mask fad will be dropped after schools successfully return without them.

I would love that to be the case because I hate the things with a passion, I don't even like seeing other people in them much less having to wear one myself. In fact I was so angry that, after Labour came out in favour of them, for the period between Gove saying they wouldn't be made compulsory and the government confirming they would be, I could have seen myself voting Tory for the first time in my life.
At least I was spared that......
But there is a momentum about this kind of thing, after it's been introduced someone has to make the decision to positively rescind the edict, and the bunch of weak willed politicians we've got at the moment, and the high percentage of people worried about Covid (far more than they should be), means it really may be a long time that they're no longer inflicted on us.

 

[farleigh]

Where was this?

I am on the South Coast

 

[farleigh]

I would love that to be the case because I hate the things with a passion, I don't even like seeing other people in them much less having to wear one myself. In fact I was so angry that, after Labour came out in favour of them, for the period between Gove saying they wouldn't be made compulsory and the government confirming they would be, I could have seen myself voting Tory for the first time in my life.
At least I was spared that......
But there is a momentum about this kind of thing, after it's been introduced someone has to make the decision to positively rescind the edict, and the bunch of weak willed politicians we've got at the moment, and the high percentage of people worried about Covid (far more than they should be), means it really may be a long time that they're no longer inflicted on us.

I tend to think it will die off quite quickly. Hoping so anyway

 

[talldave]

Compliance at the shops is already dropping. The fact that those of us not wearing are not being challenged has not gone unnoticed.

It's a different story on the trains I think, where you've got the British Transport Gestapo to deal with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

- If a FPN is offered and accepted, is that an 'admission of guilt', or is that only the case when paying the fine? Can you dispute it and demand your day in court instead?

I'm pretty sure that it's payment of an FPN that constitutes admission of guilt (unlike a Police caution), and that you wouldn't have the option to refuse an FPN on the spot per-se, that would be later.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it really worth it? You might easily end up in casualty with a broken nose, or similar.

If anyone is going around "lamping" people in the event of querying mask non-wearing, rather than just saying "none of your business" or "I'm exempt", then they are not nice people and deserve the prosecution for assault they would be in receipt of as a result. Maybe it would teach them a useful lesson.

It is not under any circumstance other than necessary self defence acceptable to "lamp" someone - no matter how offensive what they say is.

 

[Huntergreed]

Is it me or does it seem inevitable that with the next easing we may see masks extended to outdoors in city/town centres. France has done this in city centres, Spain has made it law outdoors, and Italy has just mandated them in public places where distancing isn’t possible, it seems inevitable that this may be coming next given cases have risen in the last month.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it me or does it seem inevitable that with the next easing we may see masks extended to outdoors in city/town centres. France has done this in city centres, Spain has made it law outdoors, and Italy has just mandated them in public places where distancing isn’t possible, it seems inevitable that this may be coming next given cases have risen in the last month.

It's possible. I don't think it's sensible or necessary, but if people can't actually manage to stay 2m apart I think we will see it.

I'm sure this sanctimonious response will come as no surprise to anyone on here!

I can see nothing sanctimonious about that - it's a good explanation of the policy.

Well the police can't do anything about trespassing on commercial property, as it's a civil offence not a criminal one.

Isn't railway trespass criminal, or does that just relate to going on the track? Let's say it's not, though, that still allows private security (where present) to be used to march a non-complier out.

 

[DB]

I can see nothing sanctimonious about that - it's a good explanation of the policy.

It's smug and self righteous but completely ignores the actual concerns raised by the petition, and provides no evidence to back up the claims.

Explaining the policy is completely unnecessary - those who created the petition clearly understood it perfectly well already and didn't agree with it. Repeating it is not a meaningful response to the issues raised.

 

[NorthOxonian]

It's possible. I don't think it's sensible or necessary, but if people can't actually manage to stay 2m apart I think we will see it.

I know a lot of people, even rather pro-mask people, who would see mandating them outdoors as the straw that breaks the camel's back. Like you, I think it will happen - and it will do even more to hurt the already struggling high street.

 

[Butts]

Is it me or does it seem inevitable that with the next easing we may see masks extended to outdoors in city/town centres. France has done this in city centres, Spain has made it law outdoors, and Italy has just mandated them in public places where distancing isn’t possible, it seems inevitable that this may be coming next given cases have risen in the last month.

Well I was in Italy on Friday and didn't see any evidence of mask wearing in outdoor public places - there were hoards of diners/drinkers enjoying meals and drinks cheek by jowl al fresco.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

It's possible. I don't think it's sensible or necessary, but if people can't actually manage to stay 2m apart I think we will see it.

Have you not realised that the the 2m rule was pretty much universally observed until face coverings were mandated, then some people seemed to stop observing social distancing? I think some people relaxed and maybe even thought masks were instead of social distancing!
It will be extremely irritating if the unintended consequences of a policy that was contentious are then used to extend that policy in wider settings.
i will not comply with such lunacy

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have you not realised that the the 2m rule was pretty much universally observed until face coverings were mandated, then some people seemed to stop observing social distancing? I think some people relaxed and maybe even thought masks were instead of social distancing!

Yes, this is silly and there does need to be some publicity around this issue.

 

[island]

Is it me or does it seem inevitable that with the next easing we may see masks extended to outdoors in city/town centres. France has done this in city centres, Spain has made it law outdoors, and Italy has just mandated them in public places where distancing isn’t possible, it seems inevitable that this may be coming next given cases have risen in the last month.

I am very worried that this will become a thing.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I think the only real "benefit" in mandating face coverings in outdoor public places is a when local restrictions are needed.

That benefit would be something to the effect of: We need to be seen to be doing something.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I am very worried that this will become a thing.

And in Italy, they will now be compulsory outdoors at all times in the whole country between 18:00 in the evening and 6:00 in the morning!
The policy will basically be exactly like what they have in Spain, except that as I stated above, it will only apply at nighttime. In broad daylight, there is no need to wear mask unless you're indoors, or outdoors where social distancing of 1m is not possible.

Here for more info (please note that the article is in Italian but if you need any help just quote my post and I'll be happy to help you, as I speak Italian fluently).

Mascherine obbligatorie all'aperto dopo le 18: scatta l'emergenza nei comuni

La paura del contagio fa correre ai ripari molte amministrazioni: distribuzione gratuita in Puglia, in Campania, in Abruzzo e in Toscana

www.lastampa.it

Mascherine obbligatorie anche all'aperto a partire dalle 18 e scatta l'emergenza in tutta Italia. Dopo la decisione del Governo, seguita al confronto in videoconferenza, durato oltre due ore tra i ministri Francesco Boccia, Roberto Speranza e Stefano Patuanelli ed i presidenti delle Regioni, ora i Comuni dovranno correre ai ripari. Non solo controllando che la norma sia rispettata ma anche facendo in modo che tutti i cittadini siano provvisti dell'oggetto più discusso del momento: il dispositivo di sicurezza individuale così contestato ma che, da domani, tutti dovranno indossare dal tramonto in poi e non solo nei luoghi chiusi e sui mezzi di trasporto.

A Taranto 250 mila dispositivi di sicurezza per i residenti

Il Comune di Taranto oggi ha comunicato di voler distribuire ai residenti 250 mila mascherine chirurgiche nei prossimi giorni. In Puglia l'uso è obbligatorio anche all'aperto in tutti i luoghi dove non sia possibile garantire il mantenimento della distanza di sicurezza di almeno un metro. E adesso lo sarà ovunque dal tramonto all'alba.

«Dobbiamo lavorare insieme, il virus si può battere, ma c'è bisogno di un gran lavoro da fare tutti insieme per scongiurare sacrifici personali e collettivi» ha dichiarato l'assessore all'Ambiente Francesca Viggiano.

550 mila mascherine in Campania

E in Campania il presidente della Regione Vincenzo De Luca ha disposto la distribuzione di 550 mila mascherine per chi vive o trascorre le vacanze sulla costa.

 

[kez19]

Pedestrianisation of parts of town centres obviously has some significant advantages. However, it should be planned and implemented prooperly - not some half-arsed bodge which hasn't been thought through properly.

And I can see no merit in doing it as a 'safety' measure because of the big bad virus.

I have to laugh at the recent one in Dundee, Union Street has been closed and the exact features are in place as the pics above in Aberdeen, however what I find annoying was that Xplore Dundee was directing the 17s to Ninewells onto that street due to congestion in Whitehall Street (so unfortunately the bus service has been diverted up that street it was taken off and is not serving the stops until the Nethergate), seems poor planning there considering Xplore Dundee made a change to a route as well as Stagecoach have used that street for a while...

 

[Justin Smith]

I think the only real "benefit" in mandating face coverings in outdoor public places is a when local restrictions are needed.

That benefit would be something to the effect of: We need to be seen to be doing something.

TBH I'm of the view that most of what they're doing falls into this category, particularly as some people think they were late on the lockdown bandwagon.
If the government were going to go down the lockdown route then it is beyond doubt they were late into it, though it must be emphasised I have never been a supporter of it. I have said right from the start the boot should have been on the other foot, protect and isolate the vulnerable (esp hospitals and care homes) and everyone else just get on with life as normal. Nothing has happened to change my mind that that would have been the right course, in fact I'm more sure than ever.
Local restrictions shouldn't be used, I doubt they achieve anything significant. I think we're way past the stage where any significant lockdowns / social distancing / quarantine achieves anything much at all, particularly when their social and economic cost is factored in*. But, of course, it isn't being factored in, the world is myopic (apart from Sweden), this is the biggest over reaction in the history of the world..

* If we were in NZ or Australia (and there was hope for a vaccine) maybe, but we're not.