Quarantine

[Jamiescott1]

I haven't seen my daughter or granddaughter since before Christmas and she only lives 80 miles away. Doing so might put her patient's lives at risk, so like most people, I have to make do with phone and Zoom calls.

Theres a 99.4% survival rate from covid-19, I fail to see how travelling effects this. "Making do" is not good enough. If this was a major pandemic then yes I would well understand, but its not.

 

[AM9]

Theres a 99.4% survival rate from covid-19, I fail to see how travelling effects this. "Making do" is not good enough. If this was a major pandemic then yes I would well understand, but its not.

In case you hadn't noticed, COVID-19 IS a 'major pandemic'. "Making do" might be inconvenient, but that's the way it is. Get over it. Whinging about it on social media for the next 12-18 months doesn't change anything.

 

[takno]

In case you hadn't noticed, COVID-19 IS a 'major pandemic'. "Making do" might be inconvenient, but that's the way it is. Get over it. Whinging about it on social media for the next 12-18 months doesn't change anything.

So your argument is that we shouldn't express opinions contrary to yours because "that's the way it is. Get over it?". I heard Lukashenko tell Byelorussians the same thing a few days ago. It isn't working out right well for him tbh. Things change, often surprisingly quickly once the momentum is built.

 

[AM9]

For goodness sake how many times are you going to trot out the same things? ...

In simple terms, for as long as quarantines are not only possible, but probable. That's my choice. If you don't like it then don't read it. Just keep reading those posts that echo your beliefs.
Let's see what happens this week with Greece and Turkey showing signs of their second waves.

So your argument is that we shouldn't express opinions contrary to yours because "that's the way it is. Get over it?". I heard Lukashenko tell Byelorussians the same thing a few days ago. It isn't working out right well for him tbh. Things change, often surprisingly quickly once the momentum is built.

No, the majority of the UK opulation is (albeit reluctantly) following the advice/recommendations/rules laid out by the government the aparrently a majority voted for. If those who are making such a convincing case for ignoring all that for whatever reason, then you have a duty to like minded posters to campaign for a change, rather than just post in echo chamber dialogue..
Best of luck there then.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can we please stick to discussing Quarantine in this thread. I've moved some off topic posts about the UK Voting system to a new thread that can be found here. Thanks.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Whinging about it on social media for the next 12-18 months doesn't change anything.

Thanks. I dont actually own a social media account and to be fair my life has hardly changed apart from avoiding the high street due to ridcilous restrictions.

It will be interesting to see how history judges our response to this minor pandemic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will be interesting to see how history judges our response to this minor pandemic.

I'm sure if you ask a friend or relative of the ~50K people who have died they won't agree with you about being a minor pandemic. It's not as serious as the Spanish flu, but it is certainly the worst health disaster to have hit the whole world since then.

 

[AM9]

I'm sure if you ask a friend or relative of the ~50K people who have died they won't agree with you about being a minor pandemic. It's not as serious as the Spanish flu, but it is certainly the worst health disaster to have hit the whole world since then.

Ah, but in the minds of some here it is minor, which makes it easier for them to say: "not my problem".

 

[Yew]

It is, in the early 90's, nobody would have blinked to that many deaths from Influenza

 

[AM9]

Thanks. I dont actually own a social media account and to be fair my life has hardly changed apart from avoiding the high street due to ridcilous restrictions.

It will be interesting to see how history judges our response to this minor pandemic.

You do actually, your posting here denying that proves it.

 

[Westcountryman]

I'm sure if you ask a friend or relative of the ~50K people who have died they won't agree with you about being a minor pandemic. It's not as serious as the Spanish flu, but it is certainly the worst health disaster to have hit the whole world since then.

And Spanish Flu would possibly not have been so serious if there was a better understanding of how it was transmitted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is, in the early 90's, nobody would have blinked to that many deaths from Influenza

At 40-something thousand no. But social distancing measures are the only reason it has been that low. The death rate of the disease is about 1%, so to put that into perspective that would mean about 600,000 UK deaths with no measures (i.e. where everyone got it). Are you willing to accept that? I'm not.

 

[Meerkat]

A few people going on holiday isn't going to make a huge difference.

a few people going on holiday brought the virus here, ending in lockdown......
Travel is higher risk, the activities are higher risk, the areas visited are higher risk, the people you meet will be higher risk, the contact tracing will be nigh on impossible.
Meanwhile our own tourist areas desperately need the money.

 

[Bletchleyite]

a few people going on holiday brought the virus here, ending in lockdown......
Travel is higher risk, the activities are higher risk, the areas visited are higher risk, the people you meet will be higher risk, the contact tracing will be nigh on impossible.
Meanwhile our own tourist areas desperately need the money.

Precisely - so the sensible answer is to holiday in the UK this year and probably next. The airlines may need the money, but given that the effect on them will last many years I fail to see any real option there other than nationalisation and a controlled reduction in service.

 

[Bantamzen]

a few people going on holiday brought the virus here, ending in lockdown......
Travel is higher risk, the activities are higher risk, the areas visited are higher risk, the people you meet will be higher risk, the contact tracing will be nigh on impossible.
Meanwhile our own tourist areas desperately need the money.

Actually, if people are so concerned about spreading / getting infected then I'd say stay at home & don't have a holiday at all. There is as much risk going to Blackpool as there is in Benidorm.

 

[Huntergreed]

Precisely - so the sensible answer is to holiday in the UK this year and probably next. The airlines may need the money, but given that the effect on them will last many years I fail to see any real option there other than nationalisation and a controlled reduction in service.

Given you are arguing that social distancing may be needed permanently in another thread, I’m curious to ask, do you think, without a vaccine, this will be the end of international travel?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given you are arguing that social distancing may be needed permanently in another thread, I’m curious to ask, do you think, without a vaccine, this will be the end of international travel?

Yes, I think so, or certainly a massive reduction in it back to maybe 1930s levels. I would predict that if there is a vaccine it will be mandatory to show proof of it to enter a country in the same way as Yellow Fever vaccination works.

 

[Yew]

You do actually, your posting here denying that proves it.

I'd personally suggest that Forums come under a different category to Social Media. Though perhpas Reddit does?

 

[AM9]

It is, in the early 90's, nobody would have blinked to that many deaths from Influenza

You may not have, but be assured a lot of work went on to treat the most vulnerable around the world. Here, around 25 million flu jabs are offered every year (and after the antivaxers and others have ignored the invites, 15million actually benefit from them).

I'd personally suggest that Forums come under a different category to Social Media. Though perhpas Reddit does?

Not really, both are alternative news channels and used for informal discussions. Forums like RUK have a number of specialist areas but there are 'General Discussion' and 'COVID-19' (where your this discussion is taking place), sections here which are effectively social media. If this was a forum for medical professionals, a COVID-19 forum might be regarded as a non-social media channel, but here, both the forum and RUK is available to anybody. Those connected with the rail industry are treated that same as lay members of the public in a health discussion such as this.

 

[takno]

a few people going on holiday brought the virus here, ending in lockdown......
Travel is higher risk, the activities are higher risk, the areas visited are higher risk, the people you meet will be higher risk, the contact tracing will be nigh on impossible.
Meanwhile our own tourist areas desperately need the money.

Our own tourist areas were starting to do okay again, but the flip side of the quarantine policy is that visitors definitely can't come to the UK on holiday. Staycationers don't go and stay in the places that are suffering from the lack of foreign tourists - they go wild camping and littering in the countryside, and on day trips to overfull beaches. Don't pretend you care about our domestic tourist industry while supporting a policy that rips the heart out of it

 

[AM9]

Our own tourist areas were starting to do okay again, but the flip side of the quarantine policy is that visitors definitely can't come to the UK on holiday. Staycationers don't go and stay in the places that are suffering from the lack of foreign tourists - they go wild camping and littering in the countryside, and on day trips to overfull beaches. Don't pretend you care about our domestic tourist industry while supporting a policy that rips the heart out of it

And the same applies in many of the foreign tourist spots as well. The world is a different place this year, (and probably will be that way for a few years to come if not permanently).
Your comment about litter may be true but that is a British problem and not a reason to allow unfettered international travel at risk of spreading a lethal disease.

 

[Yew]

Your comment about litter may be true but that is a British problem and not a reason to allow unfettered international travel at risk of spreading a lethal disease minor ailment that is only dangerous to an easily identifiable subset of people.

Fixed that for you

 

[Richard Scott]

a few people going on holiday brought the virus here, ending in lockdown......
Travel is higher risk, the activities are higher risk, the areas visited are higher risk, the people you meet will be higher risk, the contact tracing will be nigh on impossible.
Meanwhile our own tourist areas desperately need the money.

People travel and not just on holiday. Goods travel needing people to move them, that's how modern life is. If there's a pathogen around it will find its way here people going on holiday or not. Some people on here are unrealistic, we are not going to eradicate this virus. Those of us who have realised that are not condoning killing people but there are always going to be casualties in anything like this. We've also realised this isn't a one horse race and fussing about the virus is causing other medical issues, mental health issues, domestic issues etc, which some people on this forum are conveniently ignoring as they are not the virus. They then label the rest of us insensitive or uncooperative. Not the case, I've followed the guidelines but many have served their purpose or never did serve any purpose. Afraid we are being realistic not insensitive.

 

[Bantamzen]

People travel and not just on holiday. Goods travel needing people to move them, that's how modern life is. If there's a pathogen around it will find its way here people going on holiday or not. Some people on here are unrealistic, we are not going to eradicate this virus. Those of us who have realised that are not condoning killing people but there are always going to be casualties in anything like this. We've also realised this isn't a one horse race and fussing about the virus is causing other medical issues, mental health issues, domestic issues etc, which some people on this forum are conveniently ignoring as they are not the virus. They then label the rest of us insensitive or uncooperative. Not the case, I've followed the guidelines but many have served their purpose or never did serve any purpose. Afraid we are being realistic not insensitive.

I think the problem is that some people have fixed onto the fact we are an island nation, and as such we can just shut down from the rest of the world and just ride it out for weeks / months / years/ forever. But as you rightly point out, the world isn't like that anymore. Even if we'd slammed the borders closed on New Years Eve, & imposed month long quarantines on people arriving, the virus was already here. You can't hope whatsoever to stop it spreading, humans have travelled from the dawn of time, and so shall the virus.

I'm afraid it is a slight case of Little Britain-ism.

 

[AM9]

Fixed that for you

Quarantine on return from certain countries is a response to prevent/reduce the spread of a lethal disease. If you have a valid reply, feel free to make it but please don't tamper with my post. An emoticon does not make any difference to that either.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I think you're pushing the boat out by calling it "lethal". This is not ebola we are dealing with.

 

[duncanp]

Actually, if people are so concerned about spreading / getting infected then I'd say stay at home & don't have a holiday at all. There is as much risk going to Blackpool as there is in Benidorm.

Precisely.

The time to impose quarantine was earlier on in the pandemic, when the virus was prevalent in China.

But as New Zealand has shown, even if you supposedly close your borders, that still doesn't prevent a second outbreak.

Our quarantine rules are so loose with so many exceptions in them that you might as not have them at all.

Ludicrous quarantine rules are unenforceable

Putting holidaymakers under house arrest will bring both the law and government into disrepute

www.telegraph.co.uk

olidaymakers in France who wouldn’t, or couldn’t, join the race to curtail their trips and get on the last flight – or boat – home are now digesting the full horror of UK quarantine measures. Many will have assumed that the restrictions on their activities would be similar to those applied in lockdown back in March and April, when the pandemic was at its height and everyone was urged to stay at home.

Working remotely if you could, shopping only for essentials, going out for exercise: not much fun but manageable, particularly for those with desk-based jobs. Anyway, a holiday in France, where Covid rates and containment policies looked very similar to our own, seemed safe enough. Indeed, for those British travellers heading for rural France the risk of contracting Covid looked lower than on the crowded streets and beaches of Bournemouth or St Ives.

But the Government, having last month enjoined us to go ahead with our European holidays, doesn’t see it that way. A visit to Brittany is now considered as hazardous as a trip to Sao Paulo, and quarantine restrictions make lockdown look like a picnic by comparison. After completing, to the best of their ability, a set of baffling and bureaucratic forms about their plans and contact details for the next two weeks, returning holidaymakers are being told to go home and stay there, with no exceptions. Quarantine is, in effect, house arrest. It doesn’t mean “work from home if you can”; it means “you must not go to work”. It doesn’t mean “take exercise once a day”; it means “don’t go out”. No shopping, even for essentials. If you need food or medication, ask a neighbour. No dog-walking allowed. If you break the rules you’ll be subject to fines of up to £1,000.

Given the information now available about the probable conditions for transmission of Covid, forbidding returning holidaymakers from walking the dog, or driving to the supermarket to pick up a click-and-collect order of groceries, seems wildly disproportionate. With Greece and Croatia potentially joining Spain and France on the “red list”, thousands of UK citizens could be facing a fortnight of confinement. This seems entirely at odds with the Government’s supposed strategy of containing infection through more sophisticated, targeted measures which are meant to enable “normal” life to resume.

Yet in deciding when to put countries under travel restrictions, the Government has used an extremely blunt instrument. The “science-led” benchmark is countries where 20 people in 100,000 test positive for the virus. But such a benchmark does not take account of the possibility that countries carrying out more tests are likely to come up with more positive results. Unless hospital admissions and death rates from Covid are also rising, the figures are largely meaningless.

Sadly, the arbitrary measures being applied to overseas travel seem all too typical of this Government’s confused and panicky response to the virus. Urged on by the scientists, schools were forced to cancel all exams this summer when, with political will and some careful planning, it would have been possible to carry them out in socially distanced conditions. Employees are being urged to return to their places of work – yet are still supposed to avoid public transport and keep two metres apart. Try reading the latest regulations and you’ll end up so baffled that it seems easier to do nothing. How does the Government imagine that anything like normal life can resume in this climate of uncertainty and confusion?

As to the draconian post-holiday quarantine rules, it’s hard to see how they can possibly be enforced. Will the police mount a countrywide campaign, stopping and questioning anyone who looks as if they might have been abroad lately? In practice, and based on enforcement rates to date, the likelihood is that the law will be flouted. But making unenforceable threats based on illogical demands will rapidly bring the law into disrepute and leave the Government struggling to be taken seriously.

As testing improves, rates in this country may well exceed 20 in 100,000. What then? Will everyone in Britain be put under house arrest? We have to learn to live with this virus for the foreseeable future; imposing arbitrary rules will only damage public confidence and dampen any hope of social and economic recovery.

 

[AM9]

I think you're pushing the boat out by calling it "lethal". This is not ebola we are dealing with.

As others have said, 40k+ deaths that wouldn't have been had COVID-19 not happened* looks like lethal to me and more than worthy of serious measures to prevent it's spread. Had that been done in February, we would be in a different position than today. The looming second wave that the figures indicate could be on its way will be a lot worse if the same head in the sand response from the authorities is repeated. Restriction on travel and quarantine are asmall price to pay to keep the damage down. If the need for a holiday was as genuine as some say, it wouldn't matter where such a holiday was, so the UK can provide a respite for those who really need it.

* over 60k if we go by the excess death figures.

 

[Bantamzen]

Precisely.

The time to impose quarantine was earlier on in the pandemic, when the virus was prevalent in China.

But as New Zealand has shown, even if you supposedly close your borders, that still doesn't prevent a second outbreak.

Our quarantine rules are so loose with so many exceptions in them that you might as not have them at all.

Ludicrous quarantine rules are unenforceable

Putting holidaymakers under house arrest will bring both the law and government into disrepute

www.telegraph.co.uk

And frankly even if we had lockdown as soon as China let it be know, it would have been too late. There was at least one infection chain in my area as far back as 17/12/19 from a guy returning from Wuhan. But don't tell the lockivists that!

 

[Meerkat]

Our quarantine rules are so loose with so many exceptions in them that you might as not have them at all.

As are most rules. But they are relying on people being responsible adults plus peer group pressure/grassing, and by and large British people are being pretty responsible.
Obviously we might be able to be laxer if we could guarantee/enforce 100% obedience, but we don’t live in one of those places thankfully.