LNER Considering Requiring Passengers to Check-in Before Travel

[iainbhx]

DB offers this as a service. If you do it, the idea is that the guard doesn't disturb you during the journey for a ticket check.

That indeed is the idea, I've used it several times, most recently from München Hbf to Frankfurt Flughafen Fernbf, my ticket was still checked by gripper.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Staying near Berwick, and visiting Edinburgh today. This having to reserve thing looks far too complicated, (we don't want to commit to a specific return train), so we're going to drive.........

 

[Failed Unit]

The seat would only not be checked as far as Stevenage, though.

It would, but the ticket checks are often done leaving London. So the staff are told not to disturb the person in seat x. When they pass through the train later on they just assume the person is still with a valid ticket. Granted this probably happened in the past, getting on a Stevenage means I rarely get my ticket checked (Pre-Covid)

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would, but the ticket checks are often done leaving London. So the staff are told not to disturb the person in seat x. When they pass through the train later on they just assume the person is still with a valid ticket. Granted this probably happened in the past, getting on a Stevenage means I rarely get my ticket checked (Pre-Covid)

It would probably make sense for it to be part of the software to flag up those seats for the guard to go and specifically check they have been vacated.

 

[Failed Unit]

Staying near Berwick, and visiting Edinburgh today. This having to reserve thing looks far too complicated, (we don't want to commit to a specific return train), so we're going to drive.........

It isn't that bad to be honest, no worse then paying for your car parking. However I absolutely agree it is a pain in the rear when you have missed your connection or don't know when you want to return. If you arrive at 1327 for example you probably won't have time to book your seat and miss the train as a result, which is why people doing the shorter journeys like yourself will drive.

It would probably make sense for it to be part of the software to flag up those seats for the guard to go and specifically check they have been vacated.

I would agree, the reservations system on LNER (at least on the journeys I have made) is switched off at the moment. Someone sitting in a "green" seat should automatically flag check.

If you ignore Covid it could have some great positives, with some dangers of course.

Turning reservations green for "no-shows" is a great help for everyone, however if the person isn't really a no show and they re-reserve the seat cross-country style then this would be a bad thing. It would also be great if this was mandatory that you could say I am in seat y rather then my booked seat. It is impossible to get 100% uptake however, many people don't have smart phones for a start. But I certainly don't think it should be used instead of revenue protection. If I don't want to be disturbed I have always just left my ticket on the table, worked for years, not a problem I need technology to solve.

 

[DarloRich]

There seems to be a great deal of wibble about this! In these strange times we need to socially distance. This is a clearly a way of trying to support that AND make sure we can run a safe train service that is as easy as possible to use, subject to the ongoing Covid situation.

The "industry" is/will be trying all kinds of tools to persuade people train travel is available and safe. This is just one and personally I don't see a problem.

 

[Gems]

Nothing like driving away the casual traveller. LNER seem to have this down to an art form. Easy when the taxpayer is picking up the tab, but the taxpayer won't be able to indefinitely. Then what will they do?

 

[kez19]

I’ll throw a spanner here, what happens in a scenario where they switch off reservations?


I had this last year I booked seat from where I was but because train was running late, in Edinburgh some people we’re picking a fight as you we’re in their seat? (just to point out I reserved but no announcement was made in Edinburgh but onboard conductor or guard mentioned switched off?)

I had another but can’t think what it was (will update post if I remember)

 

[Failed Unit]

There seems to be a great deal of wibble about this! In these strange times we need to socially distance. This is a clearly a way of trying to support that AND make sure we can run a safe train service that is as easy as possible to use, subject to the ongoing Covid situation.

The "industry" is/will be trying all kinds of tools to persuade people train travel is available and safe. This is just one and personally I don't see a problem.

It is OK for people travelling RyanAir not to socially distance? Probably a different thread but I personally don't like the inconsistency between modes of transport here. Rail / Bus we need to socially distance - air we can do have total strangers sat next to you....

 

[DarloRich]

Nothing like driving away the casual traveller. LNER seem to have this down to an art form. Easy when the taxpayer is picking up the tab, but the taxpayer won't be able to indefinitely. Then what will they do?

goodness me. They aren't doing that at all. They are trying to run a safe and as attractive as possible service in the current climate. It isn't perfect ( nothing in society is right now) but it is a way to get people onto the trains by convincing them that measures are being taken to protect them, as far as possible, while they are on the train. It is about rebuilding customer confidence in rail as a safe journey option. This will be one of a number of trials of various systems across the wider industry to try and do that. They wont all work or catch but they have to try.

Frankly it fills me with more confidence than the Northern free for all around Leeds I experienced on Saturday!

 

[kez19]

It would, but the ticket checks are often done leaving London. So the staff are told not to disturb the person in seat x. When they pass through the train later on they just assume the person is still with a valid ticket. Granted this probably happened in the past, getting on a Stevenage means I rarely get my ticket checked (Pre-Covid)

For me since I go to Newcastle I’m checked twice every time, from Newcastle itself or just after then again after Edinburgh (I don’t get point in that)

 

[DarloRich]

It is OK for people travelling RyanAir not to socially distance? Probably a different thread but I personally don't like the inconsistency between modes of transport here. Rail / Bus we need to socially distance - air we can do have total strangers sat next to you....

I agree - it should be social distancing on planes to. The trains i have been on, Northern apart, have been fine and well controlled.

 

[Failed Unit]

I’ll throw a spanner here, what happens in a scenario where they switch off reservations?


I had this last year I booked seat from where I was but because train was running late, in Edinburgh some people we’re picking a fight as you we’re in their seat? (just to point out I reserved but no announcement was made in Edinburgh but onboard conductor or guard mentioned switched off?)

I had another but can’t think what it was (will update post if I remember)

I haven't gone on an LNER train with the reservations switched on for a couple of months now. As they are "reservation only" they seem to think that people will comply with what they are given. I haven't experienced it myself but I do understand that people do sit in others seats but I have not had the reservations system in use on any of the trains I have used.

 

[choochootrain]

goodness me. They aren't doing that at all. They are trying to run a safe and as attractive as possible service in the current climate. It isn't perfect ( nothing in society is right now) but it is a way to get people onto the trains by convincing them that measures are being taken to protect them, as far as possible, while they are on the train. It is about rebuilding customer confidence in rail as a safe journey option. This will be one of a number of trials of various systems across the wider industry to try and do that. They wont all work or catch but they have to try.

Frankly it fills me with more confidence than the Northern free for all around Leeds I experienced on Saturday!

It's driven me away, I'm travelling up to Newcastle this weekend for work and I'll be driving, I just can't be bothered to faff around with LNER...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’ll throw a spanner here, what happens in a scenario where they switch off reservations?

I had this last year I booked seat from where I was but because train was running late, in Edinburgh some people we’re picking a fight as you we’re in their seat? (just to point out I reserved but no announcement was made in Edinburgh but onboard conductor or guard mentioned switched off?)

I had another but can’t think what it was (will update post if I remember)

This has been a problem forever, caused primarily by TOCs being unwilling to solve it, which would be easily done by placing stickers around the place stating what applies if the reservations are not displayed.

 

[Gems]

I agree - it should be social distancing on planes to. The trains i have been on, Northern apart, have been fine and well controlled.

Northernrail require high passenger numbers to survive. The trains are not unsafe with the exception of the social misfit specials full of drunks. Alcohol is the problem that generates other problems, not passengers themselves. LNER's approach my seem workable, until the bills come in.

 

[kez19]

I haven't gone on an LNER train with the reservations switched on for a couple of months now. As they are "reservation only" they seem to think that people will comply with what they are given. I haven't experienced it myself but I do understand that people do sit in others seats but I have not had the reservations system in use on any of the trains I have used.

Yet on site it tells you sit at a window (haven’t booked since this started still plan to at some point).

On journeys I have had reservations system has been on just apart from that journey (it was on from Aberdeen but switched off in Edinburgh), at a guess was to avoid confusion (didn’t work)

This has been a problem forever, caused primarily by TOCs being unwilling to solve it, which would be easily done by placing stickers around the place stating what applies if the reservations are not displayed.

Yet it was looking more like a free for all and causing grievances on board?, I was lucky I had a couple across from me sticking up for me as I had sat with them on that journey.
What would placing stickers do? People would rip them off and sit where they like

 

[DarloRich]

It's driven me away, I'm travelling up to Newcastle this weekend for work and I'll be driving, I just can't be bothered to faff around with LNER...

what on earth are you talking about? I have used LNER quite a bit it is really simple: book ticket. Get seat. Wear mask. Board. Relax.

What faff? is it the same as pre covid. Clearly not. Nothing is. Is it well thought out and workable meaning people feel safe using a train? I think so.

Northernrail require high passenger numbers to survive. The trains are not unsafe with the exception of the social misfit specials full of drunks. Alcohol is the problem that generates other problems, not passengers themselves. LNER's approach my seem workable, until the bills come in.

I wasn't travelling on the vom coms - it was morning and afternoon. There was little social distancing, little or no advice on train, very poor mask adherence and seemingly very few parps given by anyone, especially the young. Leeds is heading for local lock down based on what I saw.

LNER by contrast has always felt safe and well organinsed.

As for the bills: The government is paying them all right now!

 

[Failed Unit]

I agree - it should be social distancing on planes to. The trains i have been on, Northern apart, have been fine and well controlled.

I have the same experience as you on the trains, although on my EMR experiences it would be interesting if the 153s hadn't gone.

My observation of the London buses are more interesting with respect that they have their max 30 limit, so you get families travelling together as they are entitled to, so you get masses of space that could be used for other passengers as the bus still has 30 people on, just lots of small groups together.

However back to LNER - I have noticed that couples are split up and then move to sit next to each other. I have no issue with this personally, but I have seen some conflicts were the person that has moved is now directly behind someone that views they are too close.

I have yet to travel on a train where you can't get a double seat to yourself. As I said on my other post it could have some great benefits covid / non covid. But as for feeling safe, I actually feel less safe now the masks are mandatory then I did previously. At least pre-masks everyone was the same. Now I avoid public transport as I am exempt and I have already had the "anyone can print off one of those lines". Luckily it didn't get nasty, but I would rather not use public transport to avoid this vocal minority that don't believe people have breathing problems. Not sure what the TOCs can do about this however.

 

[DarloRich]

I actually feel less safe now the masks are mandatory then I did previously. At least pre-masks everyone was the same. Now I avoid public transport as I am exempt and I have already had the "anyone can print off one of those lines". Luckily it didn't get nasty, but I would rather not use public transport to avoid this vocal minority that don't believe people have breathing problems. Not sure what the TOCs can do about this however.

That is sad but understandable. I will be honest and say I am suspicious of (but not angry or aggressive with) those without a mask and I would probably try to move away from them. I simply don't want to risk getting ill or worse making someone I care about ill. It is amazing how many "medical exemptions" have suddenly appeared btw! I know people with no medical issues who have a card because they don't want to wear a mask. it is the covidiots and antivaxers who are responsible for suspicion that but people truly unwell feel the backlash of those idiots sadly.

Anyway all OT

However back to LNER - I have noticed that couples are split up and then move to sit next to each other.

When we have traveled as a couple ( On LNER) we have always had a table and sat opposite each other. I would prefer that anyway. On Northern we simply took and available pair of seats.

 

[Gems]

what on earth are you talking about? I have used LNER quite a bit it is really simple: book ticket. Get seat. Wear mask. Board. Relax.

What faff? is it the same as pre covid. Clearly not. Nothing is. Is it well thought out and workable meaning people feel safe using a train? I think so.



I wasn't travelling on the vom coms - it was morning and afternoon. There was little social distancing, little or no advice on train, very poor mask adherence and seemingly very few parps given by anyone, especially the young. Leeds is heading for local lock down based on what I saw.

LNER by contrast has always felt safe and well organinsed.

As for the bills: The government is paying them all right now!

You cannot social distance on a train. It is not physically possible if you want a sustainable service. Leave the trains for those who are prepared to move on with their lives if you don't feel safe. Personally I do feel safe working them, and always have. I feel a lot less safe in a pub. As for LNER. what about the casual traveller? Why should you have to book a specific train? Why is every ticket not a cheaper advanced ticket if you cannot pick and chose your train as you can with a 'anytime return' What if you don't have a smart phone for a app? It's all okay having these rules whilst someone else is picking up the tab. But sooner or later the government will demand a return for their money, and that could mean service cuts, job loses, and a overall poorer service.
Get people back onto the trains.

 

[DarloRich]

Get people back onto the trains.

that is what they are trying to do! They need to build confidence in the public that the train is safe.

Personally, Northern aside, I have had no bad experiences with train travel since lockdown ended. Yes, some travel is slightly more difficult but so is everything in life. I never expected to have to log in at the door of a pub if i fancied a pint!

If some sensible seat discipline, enhanced cleaning, usable toilets for washing hands and mask wearing is in place I think we are good to go.

Why should you have to book a specific train? Why is every ticket not a cheaper advanced ticket if you cannot pick and chose your train as you can with a 'anytime return' What if you don't have a smart phone for a app? It's all okay having these rules whilst someone else is picking up the tab

We are talking about an unprecedented situation that requires a response different than normal. We all have to make changes to our lives to try and both accommodate that situation and protect ourselves and others from the potential impacts. As I said the rules as they exist on LNER are hardly taxing: Book ticket. Get seat. Wear mask. Board. Relax.

You can book if tickets are available, via your phone or in person at the station, 5 minutes before travel. That is slightly different to turn up and go but not by much.

The question is how do you overcome the reluctance of people to travel by train? You do that firstly by convincing them you have in place rules and procedures that protect them, as far as possible, during these difficult times. That wont, imo, happen by simply having a free for of of the sort you and others want.

And you can socially distance on trains. We have been for months. Yes, that cant carry on indefinitely which is why new ideas, tools or techniques need to be tried to get people back on the train by convincing them it is safe to do so. Once you have done that you can look to dial down the rules and return, as far as possible, to ordinary.

 

[Ianno87]

Also had this survey. Rather odd as before they explained what it was they asked what the 'ideal check in experience' would look like. I replied preferably none! Very against this idea, half the point of train travel is that its not a plane, you turn up 10 mins before the train and go.

LNER are, I think, in their efforts to be covid safe, at risk actually putting people off by making travel so complicated.

Oh and wouldn't it be nice if we had some united procedures across the whole network rather than operator by operator ones?

Nothing like driving away the casual traveller. LNER seem to have this down to an art form. Easy when the taxpayer is picking up the tab, but the taxpayer won't be able to indefinitely. Then what will they do?

Strange - LNER *by a mile* seem to have been the most successful long distance operator at getting folks back on their trains since Covid.

It's almost like Enthusiasts don't really understand normal passengers...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's almost like Enthusiasts don't really understand normal passengers...

Enthusiasts certainly have different wants and needs than normal passengers. I would suggest, based on observation of other countries, that the simplicity of running IC trains like airlines would be very popular with most normal passengers, as most normal passengers don't travel from Edinburgh to London or vice versa on a whim (crikey, as an enthusiast I can only recall having done that once ever!), rather they plan and book ahead and know which trains they'll be using.

You can buy a flight on easyJet for near enough immediate travel (I think because of check-in deadlines somewhere between 2 and 3 hours is the cut-off, but trains aren't planes). People don't, because people typically plan long distance trips to a much greater extent than enthusiasts do.

 

[choochootrain]

Enthusiasts certainly have different wants and needs than normal passengers. I would suggest, based on observation of other countries, that the simplicity of running IC trains like airlines would be very popular with most normal passengers, as most normal passengers don't travel from Edinburgh to London or vice versa on a whim (crikey, as an enthusiast I can only recall having done that once ever!), rather they plan and book ahead and know which trains they'll be using.

You can buy a flight on easyJet for near enough immediate travel (I think because of check-in deadlines somewhere between 2 and 3 hours is the cut-off, but trains aren't planes). People don't, because people typically plan long distance trips to a much greater extent than enthusiasts do.

Passengers may not travel between London and Newcastle on a whim, but they certainly do between Leeds and Wakefield. If LNER want to go down this route then reduce the frequency of their trains and hand the pathways to more local services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Passengers may not travel between London and Newcastle on a whim, but they certainly do between Leeds and Wakefield. If LNER want to go down this route then reduce the frequency of their trains and hand the pathways to more local services.

At one point before they fell out with DB, Thalys kept an unreserved coach for such journeys which was, I think, sold as a RegionalExpress, shown as a different train in the system. This would be an option.

 

[Ianno87]

Passengers may not travel between London and Newcastle on a whim, but they certainly do between Leeds and Wakefield.

London-Newcastle. High value fare of which LNER get the lion's share and passengers only have much slower alternatives.

Leeds-Wakefield: Cheapo PTE fare that's split 3 ways across 2 possible routes.

LNER seem to have their priorities right here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

London-Newcastle. High value fare of which LNER get the lion's share and passengers only have much slower alternatives.

Leeds-Wakefield: Cheapo PTE fare that's split 3 ways across 2 possible routes.

LNER seem to have their priorities right here.

Though an effect of this is that someone reserving a seat for Leeds to Wakefield could actually prevent the sale of a London to Newcastle fare.

I am actually in favour of segregation of IC and regional flows on a DB type model, but that would require a good (at least hourly) regional service on all routes, thus requiring a reduction in some IC frequencies where there are capacity issues. It wouldn't just save LNER issues, it'd fix most of the XC capacity issues as well.

There's also the paradox that while TPE is the "RE" on the north ECML (much as they bleat on about being InterCity, fancy end doored trains does not make them so, other than the Manchester Airport-Scotland route which probably is), it has far less capacity than LNER by that point.

 

[Scottychoo]

You cannot social distance on a train. It is not physically possible if you want a sustainable service. Leave the trains for those who are prepared to move on with their lives if you don't feel safe. Personally I do feel safe working them, and always have. I feel a lot less safe in a pub. As for LNER. what about the casual traveller? Why should you have to book a specific train? Why is every ticket not a cheaper advanced ticket if you cannot pick and chose your train as you can with a 'anytime return' What if you don't have a smart phone for a app? It's all okay having these rules whilst someone else is picking up the tab. But sooner or later the government will demand a return for their money, and that could mean service cuts, job loses, and a overall poorer service.
Get people back onto the trains.

Couldn't agree more, let sensible people travel like we did pre Covid without jumping through hoops. If you're paranoid or don't feel safe then use your car.
If the TOCs want people to come back to the railway they are going a strange way about it.

 

[DarloRich]

Strange - LNER *by a mile* seem to have been the most successful long distance operator at getting folks back on their trains since Covid.

London-Newcastle. High value fare of which LNER get the lion's share and passengers only have much slower alternatives.

Leeds-Wakefield: Cheapo PTE fare that's split 3 ways across 2 possible routes.

LNER seem to have their priorities right here.

Agreed - LNER seem much better organised that, say, Avanti.

Passengers may not travel between London and Newcastle on a whim, but they certainly do between Leeds and Wakefield. If LNER want to go down this route then reduce the frequency of their trains and hand the pathways to more local services.

This is silly.

Couldn't agree more, let sensible people travel like we did pre Covid without jumping through hoops. If you're paranoid or don't feel safe then use your car.
If the TOCs want people to come back to the railway they are going a strange way about it.

It is clear many posters here simply do not " get it". Passengers want confidence that they will be as safe as possible travelling. LNER seem to be doing this well. Pretending that we aren't in the middle of an unprecedented situation that requires unusual solutions is not sensible imo.