Should we go back into lockdown at this point?

[brad465]

At this rate we'll be in a national lockdown by default, after every local authority introduces a local lockdown. Currently at around 25/30%, and a lot of uni students.

I said a similar thing earlier this month on the Return to School thread about their extreme policy of quarantining whole year groups when cases emerge, where at this rate of infections going up most schools will close by default if this policy continues.

 

[yorksrob]

I think that's what Bozza may be trying to achieve - get another national lockdown without being blamed for it.

Blame it on the naughty hospitality industry instead.

 

[PHILIPE]

Going back into full lockdown would become a case of "revolving doors". As soon as there were some relaxations after the position had again improved, the Covidiots would once again kick off and then back to square one.

 

[Howardh]

Going back into full lockdown would become a case of "revolving doors". As soon as there were some relaxations after the position had again improved, the Covidiots would once again kick off and then back to square one.

What are those?

 

[PHILIPE]

What are those?

The new word but not yet in the dictionary to describe people who ignore the rules and guidance

 

[SJN]

It’s not necessarily idiots spreading it though. That’s what a virus does. The only way a lockdown would work imo is for it to be the rule that nobody leaves the house at all, apart from emergency services who would deliver food parcels etc. All borders closed and everyone in the country to have a negative test before reopening. The borders would have to stay closed though. Thankfully this wouldn’t be possible but if they want to eradicate it completely then I don’t see how else it could be done.

 

[Howardh]

The new word but not yet in the dictionary to describe people who ignore the rules and guidance

Deliberately ignore them, or are simply confused/unaware, or like me bend the rules (ie I'm going for a socially-distanced track-and-traced pint in Manchester tonight as Bolton continues to be "closed")?
Glad to see parliament's u-turn on their bars being opened, although it's taken newspaper exposure to do it. Otherwise we'd be none the wiser.

 

[Domh245]

The new word but not yet in the dictionary to describe people who ignore the rules and guidance

It's probably more aptly used to describe those that think that we can 'beat' the virus through all the measures introduced, at great expense and limited benefit.

 

[Ianno87]

The new word but not yet in the dictionary to describe people who ignore the rules and guidance

It's probably more aptly used to describe those that think that we can 'beat' the virus through all the measures introduced, at great expense and limited benefit.

Glad we're agreed then! (Eye roll emoticon)

 

[brad465]

What are those?

The new word but not yet in the dictionary to describe people who ignore the rules and guidance

Yes I made the post below back in August in the Coronavirus words of the year thread for that word:

"COVIDIOT" might be a good shout, even if it isn't an actual word.

I didn't put the definition as it seemed rather self-explanatory.

 

[takno]

Yes I made the post below back in August in the Coronavirus words of the year thread for that word:



I didn't put the definition as it seemed rather self-explanatory.

Yup, the definition is clearly anybody who doesn't agree with whatever one's own beliefs are about the correct way of responding to the Covid situation.

 

[yorkie]

What are those?

It usually refers to someone who is [perceived to be] in close proximity to a lot of other people e.g. if a lot of people visit a beach and someone takes a photo with a telephoto lens and uploads it to social media, hysterical people who are isolating at home will respond with the hashtag "#covidiots"

The term is most frequently used by people who think we should all stay at home indefinitely until a vaccine is rolled out (regardless of any economic or mental health issues)

 

[Huntergreed]

Sturgeon saying today that herself and her advisers will be meeting later to discuss the possibility of a 'circuit-breaker' full lockdown for the length of the school holidays to reduce transmission (ie back to March for 2 weeks), I hope it doesn't happen but I think it's looking increasingly likely, at the expense of mental health, and thousands to perhaps millions of livelihoods and businesses.

She's saying if we don't act now we will put lives at risk (conveniently forgetting to mention how her restrictive measures are doing exactly that, as well as costing the economy millions)

 

[DB]

Sturgeon saying today that herself and her advisers will be meeting later to discuss the possibility of a 'circuit-breaker' full lockdown for the length of the school holidays to reduce transmission (ie back to March for 2 weeks), I hope it doesn't happen but I think it's looking increasingly likely, at the expense of mental health, and thousands to perhaps millions of livelihoods and businesses.

She's saying if we don't act now we will put lives at risk (conveniently forgetting to mention how her restrictive measures are doing exactly that, as well as costing the economy millions)

Kicking the can down the road again! All that will happen will be a slight blip in the line on a a graph.

 

[kez19]

Sturgeon saying today that herself and her advisers will be meeting later to discuss the possibility of a 'circuit-breaker' full lockdown for the length of the school holidays to reduce transmission (ie back to March for 2 weeks), I hope it doesn't happen but I think it's looking increasingly likely, at the expense of mental health, and thousands to perhaps millions of livelihoods and businesses.

She's saying if we don't act now we will put lives at risk (conveniently forgetting to mention how her restrictive measures are doing exactly that, as well as costing the economy millions)

Is this possibly to be another one up against Boris, Sturgeon implements it first? I agree on the other also regarding other health matters it’s not as if at the moment we can walk into doctors or dentists as normal but I guess she can..

It wouldn’t make a difference either but she knows best

Kicking the can down the road again! All that will happen will be a slight blip in the line on a a graph.

She’ll claim that blip will be elimination of virus.

 

[Yew]

Unfortunately Sturgeon is in the pocket of Prof Devi Shridhar, who is amongst the worst of the "lock down until there is a vaccine" brigade.

 

[Howardh]

It usually refers to someone who is [perceived to be] in close proximity to a lot of other people e.g. if a lot of people visit a beach and someone takes a photo with a telephoto lens and uploads it to social media, hysterical people who are isolating at home will respond with the hashtag "#covidiots"

The term is most frequently used by people who think we should all stay at home indefinitely until a vaccine is rolled out (regardless of any economic or mental health issues)

Therefore if I catch a train on a non-essential trip, I'm a Tradiot. Although maybe there is one word that encapsulates breaking the law, breaking the spirit of the law and not caring about spreading the virus around the country, Toridiot?

 

[bramling]

Sturgeon saying today that herself and her advisers will be meeting later to discuss the possibility of a 'circuit-breaker' full lockdown for the length of the school holidays to reduce transmission (ie back to March for 2 weeks), I hope it doesn't happen but I think it's looking increasingly likely, at the expense of mental health, and thousands to perhaps millions of livelihoods and businesses.

She's saying if we don't act now we will put lives at risk (conveniently forgetting to mention how her restrictive measures are doing exactly that, as well as costing the economy millions)

I just don’t get the circuit breaker. Several months of lockdown measures have got us to where we are now, so what is two weeks going to achieve?

 

[DB]

I just don’t get the circuit breaker. Several months of lockdown measures have got us to where we are now, so what is two weeks going to achieve?

We must do something
This is something...

 

[kez19]

I just don’t get the circuit breaker. Several months of lockdown measures have got us to where we are now, so what is two weeks going to achieve?

Not much but punish the rest of Scotland regardless

Unfortunately Sturgeon is in the pocket of Prof Devi Shridhar, who is amongst the worst of the "lock down until there is a vaccine" brigade.

I thought it be the other way round?

 

[Howardh]

We must do something
This is something...

We - must - be - punished - as -it's - all - our -fault.
Haven't you read the Cummings manual?!

 

[DB]

We - must - be - punished - as -it's - all - our -fault.
Haven't you read the Cummings manual?!

Yes, indeed. It's absolutely outrageous that people went out to restaurants when the government told them to go out to restaurants and even gave them a fianncial incentive to do so!

 

[LAX54]

Sturgeon saying today that herself and her advisers will be meeting later to discuss the possibility of a 'circuit-breaker' full lockdown for the length of the school holidays to reduce transmission (ie back to March for 2 weeks), I hope it doesn't happen but I think it's looking increasingly likely, at the expense of mental health, and thousands to perhaps millions of livelihoods and businesses.

She's saying if we don't act now we will put lives at risk (conveniently forgetting to mention how her restrictive measures are doing exactly that, as well as costing the economy millions)

Well unless you 'shut the World' for two weeks it will have no effect at all, bit like all the 'local' lockdowns, they serve no purpose what so ever, apart hasten the downward spiral of jobs & health

 

[Howardh]

UK coronavirus: all household mixing indoors in north-east England to be illegal, says Hancock – as it happened

8,000 pupils and 350 teachers self-isolating in Liverpool; ONS says infection rates higher among those who travelled abroad

www.theguardian.com

Restaurants and pubs were to blame for just 3.2 per cent of all recorded outbreaks of coughs and chest infections in the week Boris Johnson announced the 10pm curfew on the hospitality sector, official data shows.

Just 22 of 532 outbreaks of acute respiratory infections were reported in food outlets in England between September 14 and 20. Seventeen of these were confirmed to be down to Covid-19, while the others could have been flu or other viral illnesses.

This is in the Daily mail, so face value and all that. However, it's the website's leading article, tells us nothing we didn't suspect already, and that drinkers and eaters are being battered because we are taking the blame for the new outbreaks because of the stupid idea of returning kids to schools. This is in a Tory/Boris supporting newspaper, and there will be thousands - millions like myself that believe we are being made a scapegoat for the governments total (insert adjective, several adjectives) of the situation.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Sturgeon saying today that herself and her advisers will be meeting later to discuss the possibility of a 'circuit-breaker' full lockdown for the length of the school holidays to reduce transmission (ie back to March for 2 weeks), I hope it doesn't happen but I think it's looking increasingly likely, at the expense of mental health, and thousands to perhaps millions of livelihoods and businesses.

She's saying if we don't act now we will put lives at risk (conveniently forgetting to mention how her restrictive measures are doing exactly that, as well as costing the economy millions)

It was in response to a question from the Sun

BBC reported it as:
Ms Sturgeon says that decision has not been taken, but "we are keeping that under review".
She added that she would be having discussions later today "with senior officials and advisers" from the Scottish government to "take stock of the situation to consider what options might be necessary".

"Keeping it under review" is the same comment from the last time a "circuit breaker" was brought up by the press (then the FM referred to it as a "so called circuit breaker" which may indicate an amount of disdain for the concept)
No sensible politician will commit to absolutes in a situation that is as fluid as the coronavirus pandemic where things can change week on week.
Of course they will consider it, along with other potential measures that may or not be introduced or may or not be withdrawn - doesn't mean it is any more or less likely to be implemented

I fear you are adding 2 plus 2 and getting 5 here.

 

[kristiang85]

There's still lots of rumours over a London lockdown. If the data I've seen is correct, then:

- On 21st June, hospital deaths were averaging 2.6 per day.
- On 22 Sep the average was 2.7 (the data should be complete by now)

Although tests have gone up dramatically, I see no reason for changing the position.

Destroying a city's economy on this basis is madness. I can't believe Khan keeps clamouring for it - his own city!

Another positive paper released today: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.26.20202267v1

Allowing for heterogeneity reduces the estimate of "counterfactual" deaths that would have occurred if there had been no interventions from 3.2 million to 262,000, implying that most of the slowing and reversal of COVID-19 mortality is explained by the build-up of herd immunity. The estimate of the herd immunity threshold depends on the value specified for the infection fatality ratio (IFR): a value of 0.3% for the IFR gives 15% for the average herd immunity threshold.

This is based on modelling, and obviously we know the pitfalls of relying solely on modelling evidence. However, if the average herd immunity threshold is only 15%, then this will easily back up Sweden's strategy, and explain why the likes of Italy and the UK (who were hard hit in the original wave and did not do effective lockdowns in time) are not getting a seriously bad virus situation now (I'm ignoring cases here).

The government probably won't look at this, but the case for further lockdowns is getting ever more shaky.

 

[Huntergreed]

Our preparation for school placement class at university this morning told us that they've heard a total social lockdown (ie no going out apart from work, exercise and shopping) is being very seriously considered by the Scottish Government until either Christmas or a vaccine in order to keep schools open. This would involve moving universities to online until Christmas (and if things don't fall, a vaccine), closing all hospitality and non-essential shops and re-imposing a 5-mile travel ban.

Really hope this doesn't happen, as the damage this would cause would be massive compared to letting the virus spread.

 

[Scotrail12]

Our preparation for school placement class at university this morning told us that they've heard a total social lockdown (ie no going out apart from work, exercise and shopping) is being very seriously considered by the Scottish Government until either Christmas or a vaccine in order to keep schools open. This would involve moving universities to online until Christmas (and if things don't fall, a vaccine), closing all hospitality and non-essential shops and re-imposing a 5-mile travel ban.

Really hope this doesn't happen, as the damage this would cause would be massive compared to letting the virus spread.

If that's true, I will not comply and will be protesting for sure.

I doubt the bit about waiting until a vaccine, that's definitely too far.

 

[DB]

Our preparation for school placement class at university this morning told us that they've heard a total social lockdown (ie no going out apart from work, exercise and shopping) is being very seriously considered by the Scottish Government until either Christmas or a vaccine in order to keep schools open. This would involve moving universities to online until Christmas (and if things don't fall, a vaccine), closing all hospitality and non-essential shops and re-imposing a 5-mile travel ban.

Really hope this doesn't happen, as the damage this would cause would be massive compared to letting the virus spread.

They are placing a lot fo reliance on a vaccine which works effectively? What happens if there isn't one (or it's of limited effectiveness)? Or if it takes so long that the economy is trashed by then?

 

[Huntergreed]

They are placing a lot fo reliance on a vaccine which works effectively? What happens if there isn't one (or it's of limited effectiveness)? Or if it takes so long that the economy is trashed by then?

The main line I always get in my emails from them is something along the lines of 'Our utmost priority is to keep everyone safe and protect the lives of everyone in Scotland', so no doubt it would continue, much to my dismay.