EMR Class 360's

[43096]

Movement on Saturday from Northampton to Ilford. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K01033/2020-10-03/detailed

As yet there is no path from Ilford to Northampton on Sunday on Real Time Trains.

103 is on its way back to Ilford and path in for the next one tomorrow: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K62047/2020-10-04/detailed

 

[Bayum]

Depends how good you are at spot the difference! The only external mods are horns, windscreen wipers, headlights and pantograph.

Checking flickr for before & after images, the only differences I've been able to spot are slightly smaller horns, two washer pipes on the wipers rather than one, and a slightly sleeker pantograph head without 'lugs' at the bottom of the horns. Can't spot a difference between the headlights, it may just be the case that it's a brighter bulb

It’s a shame they couldn’t have had a good wash whilst they were there.

 

[Domh245]

It’s a shame they couldn’t have had a good wash whilst they were there.

Only makes sense for them to get a thorough wash when they go for their repaint, otherwise they'll have to scrub off several months worth of OLE muck again before repainting.

 

[Bayum]

Only makes sense for them to get a thorough wash when they go for their repaint, otherwise they'll have to scrub off several months worth of OLE muck again before repainting.

Taking pride and keeping rolling stock clean is a necessity, surely? Not a one off every repaint?

 

[Domh245]

Taking pride and keeping rolling stock clean is a necessity, surely? Not a one off every repaint?

Depends to what extent you want it kept clean - everything apart from the roof is pretty clean in those photos particularly given the latter was taken mid/late august when the air is thick with bugs. The roof is quite mucky, but that's the nature of running trains on OLE, anything that runs under it's own power under the wires has a distinctly grey/green roof because of the copper and graphite wear from the wires and pantograph head respectively. It's a tricky area to clean as it can't be done in an automatic wash (unless you've got a dual voltage unit that can go through on third rail) so it's done every now and then, when the train is stabled away from the wires(/where the overhead can be isolated) so somebody with a brush can get at it.

In this case, GA aren't going to clean it now as they'll only clean it (if at all) immediately before handback, EMR/ROSCO won't pay for something that GA need to be doing, and Siemens (Northampton) won't do work that isn't in the scope of the contract. The only reason they'd clean it otherwise is if the muck gets thick enough to obscure the light

 

[MML]

Do we know who is doing the EMR Interior and external refurb ? It was suggested Brodies had won the contract, however the carriage reported to have gone there was actually down as a repair rather than for the refurb.

 

[OTRail]

Today’s movement cancelled - not surprised seeing as both 47s came an hour and a half late to Ilford.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Today’s movement cancelled - not surprised seeing as both 47s came an hour and a half late to Ilford.

I wonder when it’ll run? Maybe they might schedule it for tomorrow?

Edit at 14:22 just seen it running on open train times live maps. Now going through Stratford.

 

[Nym]

Do we know who is doing the EMR Interior and external refurb ? It was suggested Brodies had won the contract, however the carriage reported to have gone there was actually down as a repair rather than for the refurb.

The lowest bidder, so you can be sure it will take too long and be poorly executed.

 

[DBS92042]

Today’s movement cancelled - not surprised seeing as both 47s came an hour and a half late to Ilford.

47727, 360104, & 47749 on today's very late move.

 

[43055]

This weeks list for the 360's:

Class 360 (only showing units which have 110mph modifications)
360102 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360103 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360104 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (at Northampton)
360105 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360106 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360107 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360108 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360111 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360112 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360113 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360114 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360116 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360118 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360120 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360121 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)

 

[Energy]

The lowest bidder, so you can be sure it will take too long and be poorly executed.

Indeed, I believe Brodies are doing interior refurb and Siemens Northampton are doing 110mph mods.

 

[RailWonderer]

Indeed, I believe Brodies are doing interior refurb and Siemens Northampton are doing 110mph mods.

They are in a sorry state, carpets and side panelling is filthy and graffitied and so are half the loos, lights are broken and some are flickering. Greater Anglia have been keeping their maintenance to minimal since 2016. And with the Siemens maintenance contract not being renewed they’ve gone downhill from there. Brodies will have their work cut out for them.

 

[F Great Eastern]

They were originally on a full service contract with Siemens which then went down to a maintenance only contract and now I believe there is nothing in place with Siemens directly and it's all done in-house. I'm not sure if Siemens will be involved either when they go to EMR.

Incidentally the reason that FGE went for a very comprehensive full service agreement for them from the start was that First had been burnt by the 175/180 debacle and wanted a proper partnership between manufacturer and operator to avoid such issues.

 

[fgwrich]

Incidentally the reason that FGE went for a very comprehensive full service agreement for them from the start was that First had been burnt by the 175/180 debacle and wanted a proper partnership between manufacturer and operator to avoid such issues.

The only thing that surprises me is that they never went down the dedicated depot route that SWT / London Midland / TPE etc all took.

 

[JonathanH]

The only thing that surprises me is that they never went down the dedicated depot route that SWT / London Midland / TPE etc all took.

Presumably the fleet wasn't deemed big enough and there was space at Ilford for Siemens to have their own staff as you noted upthread.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/emr-class-360s.205226/page-3#post-4633122

Clacton would I guess have been the obvious location but if not where would the depot have been?

How much input are Siemens having with EMR once everything is up and running?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Presumably the fleet wasn't deemed big enough and there was space at Ilford for Siemens to have their own staff as you noted upthread.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/emr-class-360s.205226/page-3#post-4633122

Clacton would I guess have been the obvious location but if not where would the depot have been?

How much input are Siemens having with EMR once everything is up and running?

Pretty much, there simply wasn't a big enough order to justify their own depot, even at the original order for 25x 4 cars that was later cut by the SRA. So instead, Siemens were contracted to provide full service and maintenance at Ilford using their own staff and equipment at the FGE depot in Illford.

 

[43055]

Indeed, I believe Brodies are doing interior refurb and Siemens Northampton are doing 110mph mods.

Has it been confirmed that Brodies are doing the referb? I believe they had a unit up there for some sort of maintenance but has since returned?

Presumably the fleet wasn't deemed big enough and there was space at Ilford for Siemens to have their own staff as you noted upthread.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/emr-class-360s.205226/page-3#post-4633122

Clacton would I guess have been the obvious location but if not where would the depot have been?

How much input are Siemens having with EMR once everything is up and running?

If Siemens are involved with the depot at Bedford then I would imagine it will be highly likely they would have some input.

 

[Energy]

Has it been confirmed that Brodies are doing the referb? I believe they had a unit up there for some sort of maintenance but has since returned?

Brodies is what has been said on this thread, they have done work for Abellio before. Siemens Northampton is only doing the 110mph mods (for now) as once the mods are done the units are getting temporarily returned to GA.

 

[RailWonderer]

They were originally on a full service contract with Siemens which then went down to a maintenance only contract and now I believe there is nothing in place with Siemens directly and it's all done in-house. I'm not sure if Siemens will be involved either when they go to EMR.

I knew this, but not that Siemens don’t maintain them at all anymore. That might explain the failed exterior and interior PIS displays I’ve seen on the few units I’ve been on in the last few months.

 

[43066]

Correct.

Out of interest, do you know when that work is likely to be done? I had understood it’s a (relatively) straightforward re-tensioning of the wires, rather than substantial structural work.

Also the 360's will run in formations of 8 coaches during off peak times and 12 coaches during peak times.

Three guards per train in that formation due to the lack of gangway connections!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Three guards per train in that formation due to the lack of gangway connections!

Not every TOC has that rule (WMT, for instance, does not - the permanent 12 car formations of 319 have one guard). Does EMR I guess?

 

[43066]

Not every TOC has that rule (WMT, for instance, does not - the permanent 12 car formations of 319 have one guard). Does EMR I guess?

It does indeed, albeit only one of them (the one in the rear unit) is “lead” and in charge of the dispatch process. Not sure if that will be changed with the twelve car 360 formations (although they aren’t much longer then ten car meridians).

 

[Bald Rick]

Out of interest, do you know when that work is likely to be done? I had understood it’s a (relatively) straightforward re-tensioning of the wires, rather than substantial structural work.

retensioning needs structural work...

 

[43066]

retensioning needs structural work...

I had thought it was a question of changing the weights, what else does it involve? Admittedly that catenary dates from the 80s so might well be in need of a refresh. Quite a contrast to the brand new kit that has been installed north of Bedford.

 

[Bald Rick]

I had thought it was a question of changing the weights, what else does it involve? Admittedly that catenary dates from the 80s so might well be in need of a refresh. Quite a contrast to the brand new kit that has been installed north of Bedford.

Well, changing the weights makes the whole system heavier, which means it needs beefing up in places. There’s also the power supply, although that’s in hand.

The OLE is now about the same age as the WCML OLE was when it was replaced, albeit generally in better nick. Renewal is some time away.

 

[43066]

Well, changing the weights makes the whole system heavier, which means it needs beefing up in places. There’s also the power supply, although that’s in hand.

The OLE is now about the same age as the WCML OLE was when it was replaced, albeit generally in better nick. Renewal is some time away.

Thanks.

So there’s a fair chance the 810s will be either running in diesel mode under the wires, or 100mph max until north of Bedford.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks.

So there’s a fair chance the 810s will be either running in diesel mode under the wires, or 100mph max until north of Bedford.

A racing certainty I’d guess.

 

[OTRail]

If Siemens are involved with the depot at Bedford then I would imagine it will be highly likely they would have some input.

From what I’ve read (can’t remember if it’s in rail or another magazine) a large bulk of the maintenance will be carried out at Kings Heath alongside the LNR fleet, so it seems Siemens will be heavily involved in the maintenance of the 360s.

I was a bit surprised when I read this - never knew there was an electrified track between Northampton and the MML?

 

[Bald Rick]

From what I’ve read (can’t remember if it’s in rail or another magazine) a large bulk of the maintenance will be carried out at Kings Heath alongside the LNR fleet, so it seems Siemens will be heavily involved in the maintenance of the 360s.

I was a bit surprised when I read this - never knew there was an electrified track between Northampton and the MML?

That isn’t.

But that report is ‘parially’ correct.

Routine maintenance will be at Bedford. Kings Heath will be for higher levels of maintenance only. Perhaps one pair will make the trip each week.