Relaxing restrictions for Christmas Day

[C J Snarzell]

Mod note - Post #1 was originally in this thread.

On the subject of Christmas, I've seen an article on my Internet browsing from an expect warning that people will die if households mix at Christmas.

Unfortunately, even the most compliant of people are not going to isolate themselves with love ones at Christmas.

I suspect BJ and the government know this and are probably devising a way to relax some of the restrictions even if its just for 24 hours.

Any attempt to hinder family gatherings will just result in either a surge in mental health, possible suicides and even more public rebellion against the government.

CJ

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I've seen an article on my Internet browsing from an expect warning that people will die if households mix at Christmas.

It's only a risk if one of the invitees is infected and you would not normally meet them. Not that you know who is infected and who isn't. Many households, particularly those exclusively of younger people might be willing to roll the dice on that one.

 

[brad465]

On the subject of Christmas, I've seen an article on my Internet browsing from an expect warning that people will die if households mix at Christmas.

The way this is put (I recall reading the same thing but can't recall where), whoever said "people will die if households mix at Christmas" sounds like they're oblivious to the fact that death happens (nothing is certain but death and taxes after all).

There does need to be a proper risk assessment done here, as there should always have been from the outset, in which all health conditions and causes of death are weighed up and the strategy pursued goes by which setup is deemed to be the least deadly in the long run. Any form of lockdown at Christmas, and probably even the current level of restrictions in almost all areas I think isn't the best strategy.

 

[yorkie]

On the subject of Christmas, I've seen an article on my Internet browsing from an expect warning that people will die if households mix at Christmas.

If you can add a link to, and quote from, the source that would be great, thanks.

Every year thousands of people (mostly elderly) die from viruses. Some of the people who die will, no doubt, be infected over Christmas. Therefore, every year people die due to households mixing at Christmas.

The likes of Ferguson and his ilk would very much like it if everyone* hid away in their own bubble with no social interaction until a vaccine has been rolled out to everyone.

* Well, except Ferguson himself, of course!

Any form of lockdown at Christmas, and probably even the current level of restrictions in almost all areas I think isn't the best strategy.

The Government are going to have to be careful on this: if the aim is to stop people celebrating all religious festivals except Christmas, that could create a lot of resentment.

 

[C J Snarzell]

The phrase about death & taxes is one my dad regularly says.

There was an elderly lady from Barnsley on the ITV news last week who was slamming the Tier measures. She said she just wants to enjoy her twilight years and not be confined indoors on her own for months on end.

Her comments seem to be focused on the fact the government is not letting the public make their own lifestyle choices.

It does feel that the government is not allowing any of us to make our own decisions in this, because of the small minority of the population who simply cannot be trusted (i.e. the partying students).

CJ

 

[dk1]

Best just to write Christmas off this year. Expecting everything to be far more subdued. Make up for it hopefully in the Spring.

 

[yorkie]

...There was an elderly lady from Barnsley on the ITV news last week who was slamming the Tier measures. She said she just wants to enjoy her twilight years and not be confined indoors on her own for months on end....

Already under discussion in another thread

 

[brad465]

The Government are going to have to be careful on this: if the aim is to stop people celebrating all religious festivals except Christmas, that could create a lot of resentment.

I can see where you're coming from, perhaps they're hoping infections will come down notably through November so easements can be made then into early December, rather than just for a week or two over Christmas.

 

[Class 33]

I read somewhere(can't remember where so can't post a link) that some MP's are saying that Johnson needs to start easing all these restrictions by Christmas, due to the effects all these long term restrictions, local lockdowns, etc are having on many people's mental health. Quite right too, but whether this will actually happen is doubtful. It's all just getting too much now. Many people are feeling worn down and run down now, after all these months of all this. I for one am feeling very run down with all this now, and my mental health is really going to struggle to put up with all this if this drags on until at least the end of March 2021. If it drags on beyond then with still no end in sight, I think I'm going to lose the will to live. This is all just dire, absolutely dire.

 

[duncanp]

I read somewhere(can't remember where so can't post a link) that some MP's are saying that Johnson needs to start easing all these restrictions by Christmas, due to the effects all these long term restrictions, local lockdowns, etc are having on many people's mental health. Quite right too, but whether this will actually happen is doubtful. It's all just getting too much now. Many people are feeling worn down and run down now, after all these months of all this. I for one am feeling very run down with all this now, and my mental health is really going to struggle to put up with all this if this drags on until at least the end of March 2021. If it drags on beyond then, I think I'm going to lose the will to live. This is all just dire, absolutely dire.

This story from the BBC about the effects of Tier 3 on South Yorkshire is very telling.

It brings home the effect of all these restrictions on real people, their lives and livelihoods.

All these politicians and epidemiologists who say we need multiple "circuit breaker" lockdowns, or that Tier 3 (England) is not strict enough would do well to read this story.

Many people, whether they own a business or not, or regardless of how their lives are affected by the restrictions, are clinging on to the hope that Christmas and the New Year will be something at least approaching normal.

If there is no let up of the restrictions at Christmas, and people are left facing a long dark winter of misery, there will be civil disobedience with more and more people just not observing the rules, as well as an explosion of mental health problems.

Cinemas and places of entertainment were initially closed at the beginning of the Second World War, but they were soon reopened as the government realised they were essential to maintain morale. The present government would do well to remember this.

Covid: South Yorkshire pub managers fear business and home loss

Customer numbers have "fallen through the floor" since South Yorkshire went into tier three, an MP says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Pub managers in South Yorkshire have said they fear losing their businesses and homes after the county moved into the highest tier of coronavirus rules.

Louise Haigh, MP for Sheffield Heeley, said since it moved into tier three at midnight on Friday, customer numbers had "fallen through the floor".
Dave Wicks, who has been in the pub trade for 30 years, said it was "doom and gloom".
Household mixing has been banned indoors and in most outdoor settings.
Pubs that do not serve meals have also had to close under tier three restrictions.

Ms Haigh said: "Customers have fallen through the floor, even those ones that have not been forced to close, they are not seeing the same amount of business as they used to.
"Their bills are still the same, their rent is still the same, and they've just got no way of surviving."

image captionPub manager Dave Wicks said he feared losing his home under the new coronavirus restrictions
Mr Wicks and his wife Ruth, who run The Little Plough in Doncaster, live on the premises and fear becoming homeless if the pub closes long-term.
"If the boss can't sustain the business then we become homeless," he said.
"It's doom and gloom sat in the flat, we can't do anything or go anywhere."

Ian and Alison Blaylock, who run the Doncaster Brewery and Tap bar, said their business had been closed since March.
"For us, we would hope to get through November and December to get money through the door, to sustain us," Mrs Blaylock said.
"We don't think it'll be over in 28 days, we'll lose our December trade that we need to keep us going.
"It's a worrying time."

 

[Carlisle]

really going to struggle to put up with all this if this drags on until at least the end of March 2021

I’ve often wondered if a vaccine doesn’t materialise shortly after Christmas whether any countries (Sweden aside) will publicly announce they’ve completely abandoned lockdowns & are adopting alternative strategies instead

 

[Richard Scott]

I read somewhere(can't remember where so can't post a link) that some MP's are saying that Johnson needs to start easing all these restrictions by Christmas, due to the effects all these long term restrictions, local lockdowns, etc are having on many people's mental health. Quite right too, but whether this will actually happen is doubtful. It's all just getting too much now. Many people are feeling worn down and run down now, after all these months of all this. I for one am feeling very run down with all this now, and my mental health is really going to struggle to put up with all this if this drags on until at least the end of March 2021. If it drags on beyond then with still no end in sight, I think I'm going to lose the will to live. This is all just dire, absolutely dire.

Got to agree with you. Not being able to plan ahead things like holidays etc is actually causing me quite a bit of angst. May sound stupid to some but that's how it is. Got to be honest, finding work really enjoyable at the moment as only outlet from all this, if that stops really will send me downhill. Let's hope for all our sakes politicians start coming to their senses but I'm not holding out much hope.

 

[radamfi]

(i.e. the partying students).

You said "i.e.", which means "that is", implying that the partying students are solely to blame for the spread.

Perhaps you mean "e.g.", which means "for example"?

"e.g. the partying students" means that various people are to blame, including the partying students.

 

[brad465]

Cinemas and places of entertainment were initially closed at the beginning of the Second World War, but they were soon reopened as the government realised they were essential to maintain morale. The present government would do well to remember this.

This particular point is a good reminder of why there are many reasons what we're going through now shouldn't always be compared to any wartime period: much of the restrictions now involve doing things that are not natural human behaviours and were things that could be done in wartime. I recall reading that socialising was actively encouraged generally for morale purposes, not just in entertainment venues, but the complete opposite has applied so far this year, which if this continues over Christmas is going to come to a nasty head.

However as mentioned in earlier posts restrictions would have to be eased somewhat in the build-up to Christmas rather than just before after similar major religious events of other religions couldn't celebrate much, but for the sake of all other conditions they should be eased much earlier than just before Christmas.

 

[C J Snarzell]

You said "i.e.", which means "that is", implying that the partying students are solely to blame for the spread.

Perhaps you mean "e.g.", which means "for example"?

"e.g. the partying students" means that various people are to blame, including the partying students.

The partying students are an example of those that are not behaving, but there are plenty of other people/scenarios at fault. I don't deny people should be allowed to enjoy themselves but at the moment everyone just needs to play it safe and sensible.

CJ

 

[radamfi]

The partying students are an example of those that are not behaving, but there are plenty of other people/scenarios at fault. I don't deny people should be allowed to enjoy themselves but at the moment everyone just needs to play it safe and sensible.

CJ

So you should have said "e.g.", not "i.e.". That is a common error which can cause confusion.

 

[yorksrob]

Unfortunately, as much as the Government would love to make out that the spread is due to people not playing by the rules, this is for the large part not the case. A lot of the spread has been caused by people going to work, students going to university, children going to school, all mostly "playing by the rules" but nevertheless continuing the spread.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Yep on Friday I couldn’t sit at a table with a colleague in a pub yet 30 metres over the road the office is open for business.

At the end of this I’d like to see all their heads on London Bridge

 

[C J Snarzell]

Yep on Friday I couldn’t sit at a table with a colleague in a pub yet 30 metres over the road the office is open for business.

At the end of this I’d like to see all their heads on London Bridge

Everything about the whole restrictions has been a farce. My step father works in the drug/alcohol recovery services - vulnerable people have been denied access to things like AA meetings since March, yet all the pubs are open!!! I can't work that one out myself?

CJ

 

[Andyh82]

Yep on Friday I couldn’t sit at a table with a colleague in a pub yet 30 metres over the road the office is open for business.

At the end of this I’d like to see all their heads on London Bridge

It’s all about reducing contacts

So you can either go to work and not go to the pub

Of you can go to the pub, but not go to work, but you wouldn’t be able to go to the pub, as you’d have no wage to pay for a drink

 

[Huntergreed]

It’s all about reducing contacts

So you can either go to work and not go to the pub

Of you can go to the pub, but not go to work, but you wouldn’t be able to go to the pub, as you’d have no wage to pay for a drink

Or, if the government were sensible, you would be able to go to both and accept the absolutely minimal risk involved in doing so.

 

[MattA7]

I can’t help but wonder if this is because the government knows most Christian people won’t tolerate Not being Allowed to celebrate Christmas with their families and of course the money business makes from it. If they were genuinely concerned about the dangers virus they wouldn’t be relaxed during the festive period. Viruses don’t take holidays.

 

[yorkie]

...If they were genuinely concerned about the dangers virus they wouldn’t be relaxed during the festive period. Viruses don’t take holidays...

But by that logic, we'd be locked up indefinitely; see the arguments in other threads to see views on that!

It's still 2 months away but I saw this coming ages ago and there is no easy answer to this; if we unlock/derestrict just for Christmas and then lockdown/get restricted again, I wouldn't disagree with the decision based on your above logic but I would say there is a strong argument to say it's unfair on other religions who have been denied that treatment.

 

[MattA7]

But by that logic, we'd be locked up indefinitely; see the arguments in other threads to see views on that!

It's still 2 months away but I saw this coming ages ago and there is no easy answer to this; if we unlock/derestrict just for Christmas and then lockdown/get restricted again, I wouldn't disagree with the decision based on your above logic but I would say there is a strong argument to say it's unfair on other religions who have been denied that treatment.

don’t get me wrong I’m all for abolishing the restrictions and resuming normal life especially with the effects it’s having on my mental and physical health.

removing the restrictions just for Christmas and new year would be Ridiculous and show that stopping the spread of the virus isn’t the government’s real priority. I don’t celebrate Christmas (religious reasons) however it will be interesting to see what happens this year

 

[Ian Cunningham]

I can’t help but wonder if this is because the government knows most Christian people won’t tolerate Not being Allowed to celebrate Christmas with their families and of course the money business makes from it. If they were genuinely concerned about the dangers virus they wouldn’t be relaxed during the festive period. Viruses don’t take holidays.

They didn't care two hoots about the Muslim population across the North of England when they imposed restrictions late in the evening before Eid ul-Adha started

 

[GRALISTAIR]

—- there is no easy answer to this; if we unlock/derestrict just for Christmas and then lockdown/get restricted again, I wouldn't disagree with the decision based on your above logic but I would say there is a strong argument to say it's unfair on other religions who have been denied that treatment.

They didn't care two hoots about the Muslim population across the North of England when they imposed restrictions late in the evening before Eid ul-Adha started

Not going to be easy. I still dare not book a flight home for Xmas. What a mess.

 

[Mojo]

I wouldn't disagree with the decision based on your above logic but I would say there is a strong argument to say it's unfair on other religions who have been denied that treatment.

Bear in mind that Easter is considered to be a more significant event than Christmas, and the restrictions were at their most severe at Easter time.

I would argue that the reason Christmas is the bigger holiday for the population at large (and by extension this includes Christians, because the overwhelming majority do not have their religion as a significant feature) is because in modern times it is practiced as more of a cultural / societal holiday than a religious one.

 

[yorkie]

I would argue that the reason Christmas is the bigger holiday is because in modern times it is practiced as more of a cultural / societal holiday than a religious one.

This is true; the holiday at that time of year pre-dates Christianity by a long way, and is to celebrate the winter solstice and the days getting longer!

 

[Mugby]

I'm struggling to understand how the no mixing rules are being enforced now, never mind how they would be at Christmas time, Pretti Patel to re-launch the 'snitch on a neighbour' campaign perhaps?

Can you imagine the police knocking on peoples doors on Christmas Day and arresting relatives who shouldn't be there?

If you wanted to instigate civil unrest, that would be a sure way of going about it!

 

[Carlisle]

vulnerable people have been denied access to things like AA meetings since March, yet all the pubs are open!!! I can't work that one out myself?

I agree that’s wrong, but alcohol has been readily available at considerably cheaper prices in shops throughout the entire lockdown period anyway .