Trivia: Which county towns do not have an InterCity service?

[43066]

So Brentford (Middlesex) and Kingston upon Thames (Surrey) have intercity services because they're part of London and so are Paddington and King's Cross? Yes?

But, despite the postal addresses which reflect their historic counties, both are now in London boroughs (Brentford is in Hounslow, Kingston is a borough in its own right). Your argument only works if you consider that towns located in London boroughs are not part of London, which would seem a little odd.

 

[hexagon789]

Dumfries does not have a Inter City service.

Not anymore, but when the WCML was electrified north to Glasgow one of the eight Euston-Glasgows was deliberately run via Dumfries and Kilmarnock each way for the purpose of providing connections and a through service from London to south west Scotland.

There was a Glasgow/Edinburgh-Dumfries-Carlisle-Euston in the 1990s as well iirc, I think it replaced the Euston-Stranraer and ran vice one of the Edinburgh/Glasgow-Manchester/Liverpool trains with a connection provided at Preston instead.

 

[Mag_seven]

Not anymore, but when the WCML was electrified north of Glasgow one of the eight Euston-Glasgows was deliberately run via Dumfries and Kilmarnock each way for the purpose of providing connections and a through service from London to south west Scotland.

One of the Glasgow - Euston "Inter-City sleepers" used to run via Dumfries back in the early 80s.

 

[hexagon789]

One of the Glasgow - Euston "Inter-City sleepers" used to run via Dumfries back in the early 80s.

Indeed though was that labelled "InterCity", I thought the "IC" was usually only carried on daytime workings?

 

[Mag_seven]

Indeed though was that labelled "InterCity", I thought the "IC" was usually only carried on daytime workings?

Yes sleepers were all Inter-City. Just google "Inter-City sleeper".

 

[hexagon789]

Yes sleepers were all Inter-City. Just google "Inter-City sleeper".

I assumed they were just 'sleepers', that being how timetables seem to refer to them

 

[ValentaHST]

I assumed they were just 'sleepers', that being how timetables seem to refer to them

Learn something new everyday

 

[hexagon789]

Learn something new everyday

Exactly, but having now googled it - that is the label used on the BR posters for sleeping car services even if the timetables just refer to them as 'sleepers'.

 

[ashkeba]

Surely Warwick has an intercity service unless you don't consider that pointy silver thing with a class 68 roaring at one end an intercity train?

The one you can catch to the famous city of Dorridge?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely Warwick has an intercity service unless you don't consider that pointy silver thing with a class 68 roaring at one end an intercity train?

Chiltern's operation is really regional express with fancy rolling stock, same as TPE. It all comes down to what you would define as IC, I guess - I tend personally to use the German definitions, but there are many others, the Dutch would for instance call the LNR Trent Valley service IC, with Sneltreinen as the semifast Brums and Stoptreinen to Tring and MKC.

 

[Julia]

Cambridge, presuming you don't count XC's Turbostar services as "Intercity".

If we're going down the road of "where a tier 1 local authority has its headquarters" then it'll soon be Alconbury...

 

[bearhugger]

Following on from this post and a couple of others before it in https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...vices-calling-at-northampton-post-hs2.210686/



Are there many other county towns that do not have a traditional InterCity service presently? For clarity, I also include places that did at one time or never had a railway line constructed.

I am thinking of:

Wick (Caithness)
Dornoch (Sutherland)
Lochgilphead (Argyll)
Clackmannan (Clackmannanshire)
Appleby and Kendal (Westmoreland)
Mold (Clwyd)
Caernarfon (Gwynedd)

Those are the ones I can think of at the moment. Furthermore, I am unsure about Middlesbrough (Cleveland) as I cannot remember if they have had a universal declaration of independence or have rejoined Yorkshire again (or left again).

Middlesbrough is a unitary authority at the moment. It was previously Cleveland County (& the county town for Cleveland), but if we go back to North Yorkshire then the current North Yorkshire county town is Northallerton which has quite a reasonable LNER service for a small town. (I assumed for years it would have been York).
Middlesbrough should have been getting a direct service to London this year with a 5 car LNER service but this has been kicked back until at least 2021 until the station is upgraded (which doesn't even look like it's going to start even though plans are approved and money is supposedly there but that's a subject for another thread).

 

[birchesgreen]

The one you can catch to the famous city of Dorridge?

I believe it also goes to the fairly well known cities of Birmingham and London.

 

[Gareth]

*And* it depends on what you count as a county town - then (and when's then?) and now.

So we can add

Berkshire - Abingdon (superseded by Reading)
Middlesex - Brentford
Surrey - Kingston-upon-Thames
Isle of Wight - Newport

And would anyone like to argue one way or the other for

Lincolnshire - Lincoln
East Riding of Yorkshire - Beverley

If you're going to insist upon the historic counties, then Isle of Wight is part of Hampshire. Additionally, Yorkshire is a single county.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If you're going to insist upon the historic counties, then Isle of Wight is part of Hampshire. Additionally, Yorkshire is a single county.

There's a difference between 'insist upon' and 'include'.

 

[Gareth]

So?

 

[urbophile]

Additionally, Yorkshire is a single county.

Was it ever, from an administrative point of view? The three Ridings go back centuries.

 

[Gareth]

Yes, it was. Lancashire's ridings and Sussex's rapes also go back centuries. All come from some sort of administrative heritage, even if it has long lapsed.

The point about using historic counties, if that is, indeed, what you insist upon, is that the boundaries are pretty much fixed, regardless of historic or contemporary administrative function.

 

[NorthOxonian]

So Brentford (Middlesex) and Kingston upon Thames (Surrey) have intercity services because they're part of London and so are Paddington and King's Cross? Yes?

Though with Kingston upon Thames, there's the complicating factor that it includes quite a major station on its own fringes. What's the fastest train to/from Surbiton - does it get any services which are even remotely intercity in character?

 

[Mojo]

Though with Kingston upon Thames, there's the complicating factor that it includes quite a major station on its own fringes. What's the fastest train to/from Surbiton - does it get any services which are even remotely intercity in character?

No.

 

[DarloRich]

I was about to say Buckingham but as any fule kno the county town of Buckinghamshire is Aylesbury - does that have any intercity service?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was about to say Buckingham but as any fule kno the county town of Buckinghamshire is Aylesbury - does that have any intercity service?

Nope, just a most-stations-stopper to Marylebone either via Risborough or Amersham.

 

[Waldgrun]

The modern Welsh county of Powys, county town of Llandrindod Wells is not served by an Intercity route and relies on the Heart of Wales line (when open)!

 

[Killingworth]

This county town issue gets very complicated. In my youth County Hall for Northumberland was across the road from Newcastle Castle and that backs onto the Central Station. The Hall was within the Moot Hall precincts which formed an exclave of Northumberland in the City and County of Newcastle upon Tyne. It's now a hotel after County Hall was moved to Morpeth in the 1980s. Both Morpeth and Newcastle have been served by inter-city trains since the 1840s.

However, the county town is Alnwick, the seat of the Duke of Northumberland. It hasn't had a station since 1968 and was never served by inter-city trains.

 

[james60059]

Haverfordwest - County Town of Pembrokeshire doesn't. Although, reading "West Wales - Then and Now", it states there was Intercity trains until the early 1990's.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Ayr, which I believe is the county town of South Ayrshire does not have an InterCity service to London anymore, as well as Irvine which is the county town of North Ayrshire.

 

[318266]

All of Inverclyde (including assumed county town Greenock) has no intercity service.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Though with Kingston upon Thames, there's the complicating factor that it includes quite a major station on its own fringes. What's the fastest train to/from Surbiton - does it get any services which are even remotely intercity in character?

It used to get 442s and 444s (which at the time were closer to "intercity" than they are now) during the Hampton Court Flower Show, in SWT days. I think there may have been one or two evening calls in normal times too at some point in the early 2000s.

 

[rjchapma]

In the East Riding of Yorkshire, the county town of Beverley does get an Intercity service from Hull Trains, though not every day. No Intercity service for the town though from a franchised operator.

In non covid times I am reasonably sure that Beverley is serve with 2tpd in each direction on weekdays, and 1tpd in each direction at weekends. wikipedia backs this up.

 

[EllieAquitrain]

Not anymore, but when the WCML was electrified north of Glasgow one of the eight Euston-Glasgows was deliberately run via Dumfries and Kilmarnock each way for the purpose of providing connections and a through service from London to south west Scotland.

Am I missing something or does the WCML not go north of Glasgow?